"Real" numbers

[Obsessed]

Today I was thinking about these numbers that are being shown on a dyno for a tune and CAI, MAF or whatever happens to be pushed at the moment. I am starting to believe that these numbers aren't clear. I tuned my TBSS already. Now, I find it hard to believe that I add a CAI and suddenly I get another 20-25hp? These numbers don't make sense. I talked to a local tuner and he told me that I would only be squeezing a couple more hp out of a CAI, because unless I did something that moved a tremendous amount of air, I wouldn't really be increasing much, considering the ECM was already tuned. It seems that these CAI numbers are being shown before a tune is even added.

So, can we see some dynos with a vehicle that was already tuned, then added a CAI and re-tuned, or, a vehicle already tuned with just adding a CAI, because I I am not sure it would be worth $300.

Lastly, I have to admit, I am not very happy to see these nice CAI being made, but will not allow someone to buy it who has another tuner.

I am not out to piss anyone off, just wanted to clear this up and get some things off my chest.

[vetruck]

No offense to your tuner, I'm sure he's good at what he does. But...a CAI will most likely get you more than a few hp. Why, because you will retune for it. You will be flowing more air and therefore can use more fuel to keep your A/F where its at. His assumption is based on the premise that a CAI will not flow enough air over stock to make much difference. But...this truck has more of a restriction with the intake than many other performace vehicles because they had limited room with the 6.0 and it's still using a regular TB air filter. An example from my experience; 05 Mustang GT, great stock air intake, with a DS tune will make 12-13 hp, add a C&L (metal) intake will make ~ 23-26. With a JLT (plastic) intake it can make ~25-29 hp. So even though it's apples to oranges somewhat, I'd say a CAI is worth $300. If you get 10 hp (likely) thats $30 per hp. Not too bad for an easy bolt on.

[02redhawk]

The reason(s) why a tuner won't sell a canned-tune to someone that has a homebrew (or other unknown brand) modified intake (aka "CAI") has been discussed numerous times. It has been discovered that the SS's intake system is extremely sensitive to disruptions in the stock setup, so one person's homebrew CAI may skew the MAF tables completely different than what a sponsor's CAI-tune was developed for. Then, worst-case scenario, something horrible ends up occuring on that truck and guess whom will be blamed? Certainly not the CAI, but the tune to "support" it. Likewise if a CAI is purchased and installed, but no appropriate tune is ever added (despite "promising" to have a local tuner do it....). How can the buyer guarantee to the CAI-seller that an appropriate tune will be loaded/performed when the CAI is installed? That risk isn't worth it to at least one sponsor on here, and rightfully so.

HP/dollar - the CAI is right in line, normally cheaper, than most other mods installed on performance vehicles. Aside from any free-mods, always expect to pay between $25 and $50 per horsepower as a GENERAL rule-of-thumb (excluding nitrous).....and the costs per HP go up exponentially the further you mod your vehicle.

[ADM PERFORMANCE]

HP/dollar - the CAI is right in line, normally cheaper, than most other mods installed on performance vehicles. Aside from any free-mods, always expect to pay between $25 and $50 per horsepower as a GENERAL rule-of-thumb (excluding nitrous).....and the costs per HP go up exponentially the further you mod your vehicle.

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[Obsessed]

The reason(s) why a tuner won't sell a canned-tune to someone that has a homebrew (or other unknown brand) modified intake (aka "CAI") has been discussed numerous times. It has been discovered that the SS's intake system is extremely sensitive to disruptions in the stock setup, so one person's homebrew CAI may skew the MAF tables completely different than what a sponsor's CAI-tune was developed for. Then, worst-case scenario, something horrible ends up occuring on that truck and guess whom will be blamed? Certainly not the CAI, but the tune to "support" it. Likewise if a CAI is purchased and installed, but no appropriate tune is ever added (despite "promising" to have a local tuner do it....). How can the buyer guarantee to the CAI-seller that an appropriate tune will be loaded/performed when the CAI is installed? That risk isn't worth it to at least one sponsor on here, and rightfully so.

HP/dollar - the CAI is right in line, normally cheaper, than most other mods installed on performance vehicles. Aside from any free-mods, always expect to pay between $25 and $50 per horsepower as a GENERAL rule-of-thumb (excluding nitrous).....and the costs per HP go up exponentially the further you mod your vehicle.

There is no "risk" in selling a CAI, otherwise, companies like K and N, Airaid and others would not be selling them. It's a sales pitch, not a liability.

[Fishhunter911]

There is no "risk" in selling a CAI, otherwise, companies like K and N, Airaid and others would not be selling them. It's a sales pitch, not a liability.


It is a liability, Airaid and K&N DO NOT remove the MAF neckdown. once you do that, you screw up the A/F

[AJSZR2326]

a good aluminum cai is worth every dollar. its all about the air:D an engine is just a big air pump more air more power its that simple:)

[Obsessed]

It is a liability, Airaid and K&N DO NOT remove the MAF neckdown. once you do that, you screw up the A/F

I see, I missed that part. Thanks for clearing that up and I apoligize.

So, how much difference does this make?

[1BADSS]

I see, I missed that part. Thanks for clearing that up and I apoligize.

So, how much difference does this make?

I think Vectors would be around 8 whp to be safe. I think they dyno'd 11 whp

[luvchampagne]

Hi:
Someone on another thread mentioned that having a high quality plastic CAI is better than an aluminum CAI because of the heat conducting properties of plastic. In other words, the air could be "hotter" in an aluminum piece than in a high quality plastic piece. Is this true and if so, anybody have an idea of the extent of this difference in a TBSS?
Thanks
Roy

[Fishhunter911]

I think a coated aluminum pipe would be ok. I have the ceramachrome tube from vector, it does get warm, however it cools down very fast.

[GTPprix]

Hi:
Someone on another thread mentioned that having a high quality plastic CAI is better than an aluminum CAI because of the heat conducting properties of plastic. In other words, the air could be "hotter" in an aluminum piece than in a high quality plastic piece. Is this true and if so, anybody have an idea of the extent of this difference in a TBSS?
Thanks
Roy

Nope air doesnt spend enough time, even at idle inside the tube to promote and latent heat transfer and just in case we ceramic coat the tubing. BTW we got 12-15 horsepower at the tires with our CAI but we normally say 10-12 to be on the safe side.