AWD & torque management [Archive] - Chevy TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer SS and GMC Envoy Forum

tbssny

07-19-2006, 07:33 PM

Fishhunter911

07-19-2006, 07:36 PM

very good info!!!!!! Thank you!!!

tbssny

07-19-2006, 08:01 PM

Chris, can you jump in and tell us your thoughts :) :) Vector has had two test trucks, i think they have tried just about everything and have a great grasp on the limits of what should be done to the SS.:yes:

Rube1966

07-19-2006, 08:02 PM

Thank you for the post! :)

Do not assume a topic is worn considering there are new members always joining (like myself) and this kind of info is critical to those who plan to make some mods. :yes:

Regards

ltz03

07-19-2006, 08:45 PM

westers usually does not remove all the tm he had to ask for that to be done and it was not a wise idea but thats his truck and how he wants it. I still have some tm as I want my ss to last a while.

tbssny

07-19-2006, 09:10 PM

I think it was Tune Time Performance that did the tune The owner of that company runs no TM on his truck.:eek:

ScarabEpic22

07-19-2006, 10:20 PM

I think it was Tune Time Performance that did the tune The owner of that company runs no TM on his truck.:eek:
As ltz03 said, his choice.

I dont think removing all TM in an AWD SS is the smrt-est thing to do. Maybe run less with a 2WD, but AWD unless you have a built trans will cause issues. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, but eventually if you keep your truck long enough you will.

BTW, what trans are you having built? Is it a built 4L60E trans like a stage 4 or 5, or is it a 4L70E built?

Blue Beast

07-20-2006, 09:59 AM

If your friend is running no TM it's only because he asked for it. I talked to tunetime at length about this before my truck was tuned by him and decided to leave in 25%. That is true that he's not running any TM (and yes, he's aware of what it could do). Again if any customer of his isn't running any it's because they asked for it, not because he suggested it. Let's try to get our facts straight. BTW, the Wester's tune is amazing just in case anyone was wondering.

tbssny

07-20-2006, 10:08 AM

Sentinel

07-20-2006, 11:16 AM

I dont think this is a question if he asked for it or not ,he was told that Tune Time was running no TM on his so he would be fine.:) Thats the point Im making.He is fine for today but for how long:confused: :confused: :confused:

Kinda misleading I thought it was a statement about the Westers tune. Who wins the race? And if you not an expert on tranmissions why are you posting on how long they will last?:crazy:

tbssny

07-20-2006, 11:58 AM

If you read what i wrote Tune Time uses the westers tunes,and i never posted how long they would thats that the question:confused: so read the full post before you reply:undecided

kcarfan

07-20-2006, 12:31 PM

PS i will be ordering a yank trans with a ss3600 stall it runs about $3,500 then i will be removing all the TQ management cause i will have a trans and tune that will handle full power.:)

what kind of trans are you getting (5 or 6 speed)?

tbssny

07-20-2006, 01:39 PM

A built 4 speed:)

TonyGXP

07-20-2006, 01:41 PM

I think it was Tune Time Performance that did the tune The owner of that company runs no TM on his truck.:eek:

i have no torque management..do you even know when it is active?? or the difference between 50% and 0% is?? how you drive your truck will have more to do with the trans/eng/diff's breaking than removing TM..don't believe the hype..the same truck that you beat on a couple times a day is engineered with the guy who KILLS his truck in the most harsh enviornments in mind, or towing a 6k lbs+ trailer on a 105* day..I think me in my truck on a flaT surface with a half tank of fuel and the few times it gets flogged a day will last just fine (as for Matt, he beats the piss out of his and it shifts fine & he has a Sh*t load of weight in the back..)
so don't make statements like "WILL" break..or whoever told you that.try "higher probability of" or "may"..that statement is MISLEADING..thanks, Tony

PS. when the turbo is installed in Matt's truck, he is putting TM back in, as will I, for anyone with 0 mods or a CAI and Headers it most likely isn't doing anymore damage with or without it..put it likeths..when I am at the track and we race..I will have that .1 advantage over you and you will be :mad: :mad: :mad: ...that's like comparing the guy that never floors his truck to you with "TM" in place and flooring it??? like the junky who says about the other junky, "I do Heroin, I just don't shoot it like him, I snort it."..the end result is the same..nothing GOOD.

I think the worst part about this whole debate is the function of Torque Management in the truck....quick lesson...as I believe, what I read after this debate started when I owned My GXP on clubGP in the 5.3 specific area..TM was believed to be in place to "Protect" the trans from imploding...in some small ways yeah, but the main reason TM exists...is because of the fuel economy gains, 5-6% when the torque stays close to the same while driving, at WOT it pulls timing, but what they don't tell you is that it's like "fattening or richining" up the A/F ratio..which SLOWS you down...get over this topic, if I had to guess I'd say it is even in the Newer vehicles today 75% economy 25%"protection"...go read up on it yourself.

GTPprix

07-20-2006, 02:00 PM

During the validation process powertrain and the brand team pushed VERY hard to get TM and other inhibtors removed or reduced to compete with SRT-8 for bragging rights. That was until Hydramatic started getting TONS of hard parts back from failures on TBSS AWD mules with a severe reduction in the originally planned TM schedule (IE the mule you guys saw doing donuts with the Corvette in the ballet; that trucks trans was overhauled after that video)

What the SS ended up with for production was a TM schedule that had a little cushion for build out and left quite a bit of performance on the table, but it did it's job.

Now you see AWD's running around STOCK blowing 2-4 bands and apply pins as well as sprags; the same parts that blew on the mule trucks. Knowing this and having seen the validation reports we knew how far we could take TM and still keep it relatively safe. While there are varying degrees in certain areas the mean average we remove is only 40%, leaving 60% intact. We ended up testing this for numerous months on about twelve different trucks in different climates just to make sure, two of which belonged to powertrain engineers.

The 2WD can live pretty well without TM as long as it doesnt have sticky tires.. The abuse of the 1-2 upshift that nukes the 2-4 band and apply pin is taken up by squealing/spinning tires. The AWD is not so lucky, the complete force of that shift is transferred to the 2-4band and apply pin. Eventually the pin bends and the band apply is interrupted resulting in a prematurely worn band. The sprag is also another player in this as it's not up to the shock of a hard AWD shift but it's no where near as bad as the band..

These are the facts, do with them what you will :)

tbssny

07-20-2006, 02:09 PM

As for beating me, dont be so sure:confused: :confused: and as for the tuners a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon that do not have a lot of testing done.That spells trouble.This is why some vendors(vector) lock their tune to assure that it is not tamperd with they also do not have other company's selling it. Thats how you control Quality:) You are correct i don't anything about TM that why i pay someone who does:yes: :yes: In todays world you can buy almost anything:p

TonyGXP

07-20-2006, 02:09 PM

Chris, as was the case with my 3 water pumps failing...couldn't that be a bad batch of Hard parts, or a combiniation of different parts failing from faulty production? just a question as I have said before, until Matt's truck starts shifting poorly, I believe what I see..everything's a gamble..remember the couple LS2's that let go on brand new SS's (and Vett'es & GTO's for that matter ) does that mean they're all weak in that area?

Chris, what do you believe the difference between removing 40% & 100% would give someone, if we're saying it's "BAD"...? 6mos? a year? 5k-7k-9k mi?? The truth is nobody knows..I'll take my chances and if it breaks it will give me the excuse to do the converter and bullet proof the trans...later

As for beating me, dont be so sure:confused: :confused: and as for the tuners a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon that do not have a lot of testing done.That spells trouble.This is why some vendors(vector) lock their tune to assure that it is not tamperd with they also do not have other company's selling it. Thats how you control Quality:) You are correct i don't anything about TM that why i pay someone who does:yes: :yes: In todays world you can buy almost anything:p

if you think that's the reason?? you are badly mistaken..they lock the tunes for 2 reasons, so nobody (Dealers) see's it & to stop others from duping their R&D..ask Lyndon from Wester's and I am sure Chris, being the honest guy that he is will tell you the same thing..that's not a knock on them..I would do the same to protect my investment. do you leave your doors unlocked when you leave the house..or the car? that's inviting trouble..

As for beating me, dont be so sure:confused: :confused: and as for the tuners a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon that do not have a lot of testing done.That spells trouble.This is why some vendors(vector) lock their tune to assure that it is not tamperd with they also do not have other company's selling it. Thats how you control Quality:) You are correct i don't anything about TM that why i pay someone who does:yes: :yes: In todays world you can buy almost anything:p

I am sure....put some numbers up and then we'll talk (and yeah you can use whatever correction calculator you want)..nobody on here has topped my 1/4's even with corrected DA...;) ..those are the facts..do with them what you like:D (I had to Chris, that was a good one:cool: )

ask 1BADSS..I am sure he'll back me up on who has a nose for picking the fastest stocker's!

GTPprix

07-20-2006, 02:21 PM

Tony that entire control group had it's transmissions replaced and the new TM schedule added. The only thing that failed after that was a sprag and an output shaft seal. Does that mean some of them will live? Sure some will live but the odds arent exactly in the favor of having any sort of long term reliability.

On an unrelated topic Tony, last I checked Mike Smith still has you beat by .2 with just a tune and almost a second with a converter? Not to nitpick but yeah lol Stock you definately have everyone thats for sure!

tbssny

07-20-2006, 02:30 PM

I am sure....put some numbers up and then we'll talk (and yeah you can use whatever correction calculator you want)..nobody on here has topped my 1/4's even with corrected DA...;) ..those are the facts..do with them what you like:D (I had to Chris, that was a good one:cool: )

ask 1BADSS..I am sure he'll back me up on who has a nose for picking the fastest stocker's!

First of all my AWD Vector tuned ran a 13.55 at a 101.95 and yes it has been posted on both forums.That said all im saying is its not good for you and matt to post that you are running 0% TM and not having any issues!
This is not a good selling point of the tune, cause sooner not later you are going to get STUNG. Then what???????????

John Skiba

07-20-2006, 05:32 PM

First of all my AWD Vector tuned ran a 13.55 at a 101.95 and yes it has been posted on both forums.That said all im saying is its not good for you and matt to post that you are running 0% TM and not having any issues!
This is not a good selling point of the tune, cause sooner not later you are going to get STUNG. Then what???????????

Guys with 100% stock trucks are getting STUNG. I'm sure guys with TM enabled tunes are getting STUNG also. So, what's the point if Tony is willing to pay to play? Good for Tony... he needs a sticky tire out back.. who makes a 20" DR now? :D

John Skiba

07-20-2006, 05:34 PM

Somehow I missed Tony's record stock run, what day and where did this happen? I want to make sure I'm not going to try to compete against him racing 3000' in a mineshaft (weather that is). ;)

Back to our regular scheduled program....

TuneTimePerformance

07-20-2006, 05:51 PM

This topic is beat to death but I feel I should let the rest of the ss world know that removing all the TQ management is not the best of ideas. I have a vector tune and a good friend of mine has a westers tune with NO TQ management. The race is very close the only differance is my truck will stay together.That being said im not sure how long his truck will . Transmissions are not my strong point so i turned to a Great tuner(Vector) and a Great transmission builder (Yank) i got the same answer from both in an AWD no TQ man. you will break in a hurry!It will be the weakest point the TRANS. With 2WD you do get some tire spin which prolongs the life of the TRANS in AWD it spells disaster lots of broken parts. How long only time will tell. This trans is not as strong as you would think in a 400 hp super truck. yea Im sure you are all thinking that you dont beat on your SS that much if that was the case you should have bought the V6 and been happy . I will end on this all tuners are not the same if they tell you the are pulling all the TQ man. and it will not cause any problems its just not true,I think my friend is soon to find OUT the hard way with his AWD SS. I'll keep you all up to posted.:confused:

PS i will be ordering a yank trans with a ss3600 stall it runs about $3,500 then i will be removing all the TQ management cause i will have a trans and tune that will handle full power.:) I would like to respond to your original post. Jamie right I recall our conversation regaurding TQM and I was very clear we will do what ever you as a customer wants to do but it can lead to an early trans death. I allow it but Lyndon I.E. Westers Garage will only remove 75% unless I and only I ask him to remove it all.

First of all my AWD Vector tuned ran a 13.55 at a 101.95 and yes it has been posted on both forums.That said all im saying is its not good for you and matt to post that you are running 0% TM and not having any issues!
This is not a good selling point of the tune, cause sooner not later you are going to get STUNG. Then what???????????I repeat Westers Garage will not remove all of the TQM 75% is max look at the order form .I'm almost taking this as an attack on Westers Garage/TuneTime so I guess I'll tell everyone our phone conversation .I would like to point out to you Jamie when you didn't have your CAI from Vector " [ 10 week wait you claimed ] You where so intrested in my tune didn't want the Vector tune wasn't enough for you to much stumble of idle when you launched and asked me how to get around that to removal of the TQM seem to help We don't sell the tune like that but I would do it if someone asked you said I'll have /Vector return you ECM/TCM to stock so I could put a Westers Tune in my truck ". Then you CAI came in and now you start some B.S. That we take the TQM out of our tunes . As far as Westers tunes go there is 2 trucks with NO TQM mine and Tonys thats it .

As for your times they were in what march or april ? I hear there will be a meet soon well see LOL

tbssny

07-20-2006, 06:45 PM

I repeat Westers Garage will not remove all of the TQM 75% is max look at the order form .I'm almost taking this as an attack on Westers Garage/TuneTime so I guess I'll tell everyone our phone conversation .I would like to point out to you Jamie when you didn't have your CAI from Vector " [ 10 week wait you claimed ] You where so intrested in my tune didn't want the Vector tune wasn't enough for you to much stumble of idle when you launched and asked me how to get around that to removal of the TQM seem to help We don't sell the tune like that but I would do it if someone asked you said I'll have /Vector return you ECM/TCM to stock so I could put a Westers Tune in my truck ". Then you CAI came in and now you start some B.S. That we take the TQM out of our tunes . As far as Westers tunes go there is 2 trucks with NO TQM mine and Tonys thats it .

As for your times they were in what march or april ?

You are correct I did have a problem waiting for my CAI and It was not a secret I did call you about your tune as well as others it does not hurt to get all the info you can. I then spoke with Chris from (VECTOR) he told me the problems they were having with his supplier.We talked for a while and he shocked me with how much knowledge and inside information they have on the TBSS and the tune.I sent my ECM/TCM back to them and it came back a different truck the next day as promised. After hearing about problems that can happen with an improper tune I decided to stay with what I thought was best for me. Matt This was not a post to start any BS it was only to inform the people of the possible problems that can happen when you pull out to much TM. All the people in here want to be fast. when times are posted with Little or no TM the effect could be VERY VERY bad to the owner of the TBSS. Thats all nothing more just a post on my research. Not stone throwing;)

TuneTimePerformance

07-20-2006, 06:53 PM

You are correct I did have a problem waiting for my CAI and It was not a secret I did call you about your tune as well as others it does not hurt to get all the info you can. I then spoke with Chris from (VECTOR) he told me the problems they were having with his supplier.We talked for a while and he shocked me with how much knowledge and inside information they have on the TBSS and the tune.I sent my ECM/TCM back to them and it came back a different truck the next day as promised. After hearing about problems that can happen with an improper tune I decided to stay with what I thought was best for me. Matt This was not a post to start any BS it was only to inform the people of the possible problems that can happen when you pull out to much TM. All the people in here want to be fast. when times are posted with Little or no TM the effect could be VERY VERY bad to the owner of the TBSS. Thats all nothing more just a post on my research. Not stone throwing;)You asked me this yesturday so to me your instagating something . http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=11613 .
But when you want to run I'm sure any of the 15 trucks i tuned in our area will step up .

tbssny

07-20-2006, 07:05 PM

You asked me this yesturday so to me your instagating something . http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=11613 .
But when you want to run I'm sure any of the 15 trucks i tuned in our area will step up .

Whats wrong with asking a question to inform the public. And that sounds like a challenge,funny fish hunter and i put a poll out for a race day in the fall down by you and got little intrest maybe this post will spark them. I would love to put a few more notches in my belt:yes: :yes: :yes:

boostnss

07-20-2006, 07:17 PM

guys just drive it and when it breaks fix it if you cant do that then dont drive it LOL.

Blue Beast

07-20-2006, 09:16 PM

tbssny

07-20-2006, 09:25 PM

I'll keep you posted:)

TuneTimePerformance

07-20-2006, 09:45 PM

Whats wrong with asking a question to inform the public. And that sounds like a challenge,funny fish hunter and i put a poll out for a race day in the fall down by you and got little intrest maybe this post will spark them. I would love to put a few more notches in my belt:yes: :yes: :yes:I hope so . Go easy with the notches BTW my form is pubilc and you ask this question and I answered you .

BTW I wanted to know Chris what did Mike Smith run with just a tune wasn't it 13.6 or so ? I have herd him and Tony talking on the phone at my shop . I would think they have talked about that . And from what I hear Mike maybe abetter driver the Tony from Tony . I'm just asking ?

TonyGXP

07-21-2006, 12:59 AM

On an unrelated topic Tony, last I checked Mike Smith still has you beat by .2 with just a tune and almost a second with a converter? Not to nitpick but yeah lol Stock you definately have everyone thats for sure!

Chris I hear where you're coming from..if you remove too much and people blow up your company takes a hit..understandable..it would also not be in the best interest of a vehicle putting a Supercharger/Turbo/N2o on either..That's where I am headed..for all the rest of you guys that use this as a primary vehicle, by all means be careful with it..for me, I have the option to drive it if I wish, so I do and are willing to take more chances with it...

regarding the above quote in this post..Mike called me when I ran mine the first time out and asked how it could be that quick because he ran 13.4 with the vector tune and was a little P/O about it (that's the truth Chris) corrected weather/DA made it 13.62 @101+ so given that, he would be .2 faster with a tune..but I think the tune gives you a bit more than .2 don't you agree? And as for his 12.6 with a converter?? a 1.69 60' will do that won't it? and the last I spoke with him he wasn't even using your tune anymore he was tuning it himself, so unless he lied (I don't believe that from what he was telling me, I think you know what I am referring to?) that's the facts as they were presented to me..

if we want to know who's tune is the "Best" we will be here forever, cause there is no real answer, too many corrective factors involved, even same truck ECM/TCM swap wouldn't be reliable from run 2 run..but my truck does what it does, no smoke and mirrors or vudu involved..

Tbssny??? where's your slips? interested in seeing them as I have not seen them posted on here?

and as far as a stock record?? on here, trailblazerSS, and performance trucks.xxx find me a quicker TBSS? I am sure someone somewhere ran quicker stock but show me that Truck...anyone wants to race my truck at the track that's fine, just tell me when (if I wasn't in the line of work I was in, i'd do it anytime anywhere) you want to run, and we're golden. ins't that the reason we mod/buy these things? to be the fastest? I want mine to remain streetable, with all the options it came with, so I work around that..but after the "newness" wears off, I have visions of a 550HP SS dancing around in my head:undecided ..

Matt, now I will be all over that turbo kit next week, time to seperate the men from the boys:yes: ...good day all.

hotbeat1

07-21-2006, 02:33 AM

:confused: Has anyone with a Diablo Programmer actually experienced any trans problems yet because of it?

TuneTimePerformance

07-21-2006, 08:50 AM

:confused: Has anyone with a Diablo Programmer actually experienced any trans problems yet because of it? The Diablo has no Trans support . Yet

GTPprix

07-21-2006, 10:32 AM

True but we have a hunch that since the diablo has no trans support they may be removing the entire TM lookup table in the ECM order to increase shift feel since people keep commenting on shifts being changed. This is just a theory but who knows.

1BADSS

07-21-2006, 10:54 AM

ask 1BADSS..I am sure he'll back me up on who has a nose for picking the fastest stocker's!

You're a lucky FOCKER:D You must pray to the car Gods.

TuneTimePerformance

07-21-2006, 08:08 PM

hotbeat1

07-23-2006, 11:37 PM

So, my original question was never answered. Does this mean no one here that has a Diablo programmer has experienced any trans problems? With all the talk about the vector tune vs Diablo, which has no TM I thought all kinds of trans problems were taking place with the Diablo programed trucks.:crazy:

TonyGXP

07-24-2006, 12:31 AM

BLU98

02-26-2008, 10:22 AM

So how much TM left in an AWD is safe? 25%, 40% etc?

2thelimit

03-01-2008, 06:41 PM

Can the tuners and others with experience please comment on drive train mods that are available to enhance durability of the AWD TBSS. What mods are the best bang for the buck? What would those mods cost? Does it make sense to do the mods before the transmission breaks, or just wait until something breaks since the only parts that break are the ones you would change out anyway? :undecided

My '06 AWD TBSS is currently stock, but I would like to do a tune, CAI, headers, full exhaust, and a 100 shot plate nitrous system this summer.:D The plate system would be set up so that it wouldn't be possible to engage at low RPM and I would not hit the NOS on launch, only when already up and rolling. Am I asking for trouble if I don't beef up the transmission along with these mods? :undecided

I would really like to hear the thoughts from Vector and Tune Time on this topic. Thanks! :thumbsup:

GTPprix

03-08-2008, 04:50 PM

It's hit or miss really, these trucks will chunk transmissions 100% stock. We are comfortable that the 50% decrease yields a nice drop in ET as well as increased shift feel yet is still significantly softer on the transmission than simply wiping it out.

w_bailey04

03-08-2008, 05:35 PM

wow that was a lot of reading, im enjoying it :D i want to see some pink slips come out hahaha, who has the fastest tbss with or without a built trans???

pyroguy

03-08-2008, 05:47 PM

I think you would be better off going with a RPM trans !! Period !

This topic is beat to death but I feel I should let the rest of the ss world know that removing all the TQ management is not the best of ideas. I have a vector tune and a good friend of mine has a westers tune with NO TQ management. The race is very close the only differance is my truck will stay together.That being said im not sure how long his truck will . Transmissions are not my strong point so i turned to a Great tuner(Vector) and a Great transmission builder (Yank) i got the same answer from both in an AWD no TQ man. you will break in a hurry!It will be the weakest point the TRANS. With 2WD you do get some tire spin which prolongs the life of the TRANS in AWD it spells disaster lots of broken parts. How long only time will tell. This trans is not as strong as you would think in a 400 hp super truck. yea Im sure you are all thinking that you dont beat on your SS that much if that was the case you should have bought the V6 and been happy . I will end on this all tuners are not the same if they tell you the are pulling all the TQ man. and it will not cause any problems its just not true,I think my friend is soon to find OUT the hard way with his AWD SS. I'll keep you all up to posted.:confused:

PS i will be ordering a yank trans with a ss3600 stall it runs about $3,500 then i will be removing all the TQ management cause i will have a trans and tune that will handle full power.:)

eddie9217

01-25-2009, 06:38 PM

i went to tunetime last summer and i also left 25% tm. matt was great with all his help.:hail::hail:

newby

03-02-2009, 12:27 AM

this whole thread is the result of gm cutting corners. ford is guilty too. dodge and maybe toyota are the only oems even attempting to match drivetrain to engine power and curb weight.

a 4th gen f-body weighs 3500lbs and has less hp/tq than you. put on a set of slicks and get a season or two of good launches and bye bye 4l60e

your trucks are 4500lbs, +60lbs of tq/hp and have guaranteed 100% launches ala all wheel drive.

if you cant do the math on that you are an idiot.

ok here are the quotes from wiki
- - - - -
4L65-E

An updated 4L60-E, the 4L65-E (RPO M32), was phased in around the 2003 model year when coupled behind the 6.0 Vortec. Five-pinion planetaries, along with a higher capacity input housing and induction hardened input shaft assembly, were improved to withstand up to 380 ft·lbf (515 N·m) of torque. A new 300mm torque converter with improved higher-capacity internals was also introduced on select engine models.
- - - - - - - -

anyone that has done any research on rebuilding your own 4l60 for competition will realize that the crap gm did for the 4l65 is nothing new. and in classic bean counter fashion, its conveniently rated for 380lb/ft tq. in reality that should read "380lb/ft tq dynamic"... throw in just enough hard parts and a bunch of tq management to get it out the door. yeh

you have to be honest of what you expect from your truck. daily driver and take it easy on it except for the occasional street launch, no worries.

if you want to flog a no tq management tire burner every day, you can have a 4l60 built and hope for the best. but realize, even attempting to build a 4l60 to handle this kind of abuse is far more expensive than the real answer... see about forcing a 4l80 in there.

more wiki
- - - - - - - -
4L80-E

The "MT1" 4L80-E is able to handle vehicles up to 8000 lb (3629 kg) GVWR with up to 440 ft·lbf (597 N·m) of torque. Final drive ratios include 3.42, 3.73, and 4.10.
- - - - - - - - -

gee, that sounds more like it. you can pick up a used 4l80e AND a stock rebuild kit (if it even needs rebuilt) for less than a typical "stage 2" build from most trans shops. and guess what, it may weigh a bit more, but it isnt going to break any time soon.

I'd be willing to bet the the list for doing this conversion is going to be a new cross member, new longer drive shaft in the front, pay to have the rear cut down, transfer case might be a pain b/c of the lower spline count on the stock unit so either new TC ala an HD pickup (which would fix the no burn out b*tch that everyone has) or have an output shaft made for the 4l80 (might already exist), might need a different shift bracket, and you might need a donor trans controller or at least a re-program. done.

dont worry you 'do it for me' ppl out there, i'm sure someone will do a nice write up for you all here or maybe a vendor will make a convenient little kit and charge you twice what its worth.

for those who dont know what a search engine or a 4l80e is here is some reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4L80-E_transmission
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4L60-E_transmission

this is the crap that ticks me off about this and some other boards. you have to expand your horizons a bit and look at other boards and sites (ala ls1 tech and F*ing wikipedia for starters) and start doing some stuff yourselves.

yeh mega post.:thumbsup:

ScarabEpic22

03-02-2009, 02:22 AM

Screw the 4Lx0E series, gimme a 6L90E in a TB SS AWD. Thats my dream, hopefully that'll work eventually. I think a lot of progress has been done, but AFAIK now its electronics so sometime soon it should be done...cant wait.

runit15

03-02-2009, 10:06 PM

i dont know what your talking about on the f body i know 3 of them right now puttin 400 to the ground stock tranny, and they hit the 8th mile every weekend and no problems at all. i do very much back up that the SS should have been given a 4l80.

Hid-hq

03-19-2009, 02:29 AM

ScarabEpic22

03-19-2009, 06:08 PM

IIrc the weakest point is not the tranmission.....

More along the lines of the tcase front diff axles or intermediate shaft.....

Im going for the lil puke excuse of a diff.....

No worries, I scrapped the awd tcase, tranny and front diff.....

All cryo treated....Vette tranny......Custom cryo treated shafts.....

Escalade hd tcase.......OOOOOO yeah.....

worlds only 4wd Bravada on 22's ftw~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:iagree:

On the SS the weakest link is most definitely the trans man, on I6s the trans isnt the weakest link because they cant make enough power to really break them. It happens just not that often, even with all the electronic nannies turned off like my 02 has had for the last 2+ years (0TM, 0 shift times, upped line pressures for firmer shifts).

And the Bravy xfer case is not nearly as strong as the SS/Aero one, the SS/Aeros use a Torsen T-3 which is known to be used in high-hp Audis and other rides up to 700hp.

So are most AWD guys running 25% or 50% TM? I really dont want to grenade my SS trans but I can tell it pulls a lot of timing plus looking at the TCM file it just proves my point.