Towing a boat

[02LTZNole]

First off, wanted to say hello to the boards as this is my first post. I have a 2002 LTZ that I'm using to pull the boat I just bought. The boat, motor, trailer, and 105 gallons of fuel and gear come in right at 5000lb. I'm not sure of the exact tongue weight but the rear end sags with the trailer so heavy duty shocks are probably in order. Breaking is not a problem as the trailer has disc brakes on all four wheels and is equipped with a surge system. I just checked the glove box and I have both the GT4 code and the G80 code. What exactly does this mean? Does anyone know what Class hitch comes standard on the TB? Should I upgrade the towing? Anything else you can think of that I should be paying attention to? I really appreciate any help you can give.

By the way, I'm in Northeast Florida so the only hills I see are the ones at the boat ramp. I may have more questions later but I'll leave it at this for now.

[paulyjsob]

I have a boat simular in specs to yours. 21' seaswirl. With 105 gallons of fuel I'm a little over 5000lbs. My envoy 4x4 with the 3.42 (worst for towing) does a good job towing the boat. I've towed it a few times 300 miles through the hills on VT without a problem. The is very little sag from the boat. Just make sure your at around 7-8% tongue weight. The I6 is a GREAT towing enigne.

[The Black Pearl]

Hi..I tow a trailer. I think you need a weight distribution hitch to balance your weight of your boat. Here is a link that may help you.


http://www.etrailer.com/faq/trailer-towing-tips.asp

[Spong]

First off, wanted to say hello to the boards as this is my first post. I have a 2002 LTZ that I'm using to pull the boat I just bought. The boat, motor, trailer, and 105 gallons of fuel and gear come in right at 5000lb. I'm not sure of the exact tongue weight but the rear end sags with the trailer so heavy duty shocks are probably in order. Breaking is not a problem as the trailer has disc brakes on all four wheels and is equipped with a surge system. I just checked the glove box and I have both the GT4 code and the G80 code. What exactly does this mean? Does anyone know what Class hitch comes standard on the TB? Should I upgrade the towing? Anything else you can think of that I should be paying attention to? I really appreciate any help you can give.

By the way, I'm in Northeast Florida so the only hills I see are the ones at the boat ramp. I may have more questions later but I'll leave it at this for now.

First off, Welcome! :yes:

You have the GT4 and G80 so you're good there.
You also have trailer brakes so that's another plus

As for the sagging rear end, you might want to add some Air Lift bags in the rear. I added them to mine and they not only lift the rear but they stiffen the handling in corners.

Steve

[02LTZNole]

I have a boat simular in specs to yours. 21' seaswirl. With 105 gallons of fuel I'm a little over 5000lbs. My envoy 4x4 with the 3.42 (worst for towing) does a good job towing the boat. I've towed it a few times 300 miles through the hills on VT without a problem. The is very little sag from the boat. Just make sure your at around 7-8% tongue weight. The I6 is a GREAT towing enigne.

Very similar. I have a 2004 22' Sea Pro. I love it so far. But it is a heavy boat. The truck's hitch sticker says 4000 without weight distributing. I was also thinking about a tranny cooler in case I take it down to the Keys or something.

[muddy tires]

I've never towed a boat that heavy but our camper is about that weight. You will need a weight distributing hitch to get some weight to the front wheels otherwise you will be pushed all over the road by the smallest crossbreeze. With the trailer brakes, stopping shouldn't be a problem and the I6 should get you going but don't count on winning any drag races.

[02LTZNole]

I've never towed a boat that heavy but our camper is about that weight. You will need a weight distributing hitch to get some weight to the front wheels otherwise you will be pushed all over the road by the smallest crossbreeze. With the trailer brakes, stopping shouldn't be a problem and the I6 should get you going but don't count on winning any drag races.

Thanks for the response muddy tires. I've been towing it for about a month now with 0 issues but I want to be safe. Sounds like the weight distributing hitch is the way to go. How much of a pain are they to use?

[cjputer]

I have a weight distributing system and sway on my travel trailer/camper. It takes me about a minute to put both bars on. It has two bars that you torque with a pipe called a torque bar then slide a pin in it. Once it is set up initially, it is a piece of cake afterwards.

The biggest pain is that you have to store them when not in use.

CJ

[02LTZNole]

Thanks for the response cjputer and thanks to everyone else who replied. A question to those who have the weight distributing rigs, what brand did you go with and are you happy with it? Or, are they all the same? Speaking of brands, what about a tranny cooler? I see some threads in here relating to coolers so I'm going to read up on those as well but I figured I'd bring it up to see if it was necessary. Also, do you think an oil cooler is necessary and brand preference? Again, I will be reading for a long time to come as I'm sure these and other questions have been brought up.

Back to the weight distributing hitches, not only do they make towing safer but they also greatly increase your capacity, both GTW & TW correct? My brother said that a weight distrubution hitch may affect turning radius and stuff like that. What are your thoughts on that statement? He has an F350 deisel with a gooseneck so he didn't know tons about the weight dist hitch.

Again, many thanks for everyone's help. This whole thing was as clear as mud earlier this week, now it is more like Bud Light, getting there. Speakin of, I think it's time to go to the fridge:hail:

[liquidtherapy]

As far as weight distribution goes, towing a boat is different than towing a trailer. A boat's tounge weight is less than that of a trailer, thus the need for weight-distribution is reduced. On top of less tounge weight, you mentioned the boat trailer has surge brakes. If this is true you are limited to the brand of weight distribution you can use, as most do not work with surge. The turning radius is not hindered as much unless you use a friction sway-control, which you must remove every time you back-up. Always keep in mind that towing ratings of a vehicle are based on the weight of the vehicle plus one person(driver) and fuel. As you add passengers and cargo to the vehicle, the weight you can safely tow goes down by that amount. Also, don't go by the numbers on the hitch, go by what the vehicle is rated to tow. Hitches are almost always rated higher than the vehicle can tow. I tow a 3500lb boat with my 'Voy. I can say it does fairly well, however you will know it's there on hills with the I-6. I got the tune from wait4me and hopefully that will help. Also get a trany cooler for added protection.

[ds8]

My boat, trailer and gear weighs in around 6000 pounds. Sometimes I forget it is back there and I don't use a weight distributing hitch. Tongue weight is around 400 pounds, but the air suspension levels it just fine. There's no need a weight distibuting hitch. I also towed my boat with the wait4me tune this weekend...don't do it, the engine knocked any time I tried to accelerate at more than a snail's pace. Had to change it out and use the stock program.

DS

[muddy tires]

It all comes down to tongue weight. Too much and you will overload the capacity of the rear axle (check the plate on the side of the driver's door) and lighten the front - affecting your steering. Also watch for the weight bearing capacity of your hitch.

My Dad used to own an old Cherokee. It had pretty soft suspension. Hitch up his small camper (maybe around 2500 lbs) and you couldn't make that thing go straight. Anytime you met a truck on the highway was an adrenaline rush and forget about trying to turn on a gravel road. A properly set up LD hitch brought the back up and the front down and became a whole new truck.

I understand that a boat tows easier (more aerodynamic) but tongue weight is tongue weight and if the weight comes off the front then look out.

[02LTZNole]

It all comes down to tongue weight. Too much and you will overload the capacity of the rear axle (check the plate on the side of the driver's door) and lighten the front - affecting your steering. Also watch for the weight bearing capacity of your hitch.

My Dad used to own an old Cherokee. It had pretty soft suspension. Hitch up his small camper (maybe around 2500 lbs) and you couldn't make that thing go straight. Anytime you met a truck on the highway was an adrenaline rush and forget about trying to turn on a gravel road. A properly set up LD hitch brought the back up and the front down and became a whole new truck.

I understand that a boat tows easier (more aerodynamic) but tongue weight is tongue weight and if the weight comes off the front then look out.


I need to try and get my tongue weight calculated somehow. I'm not sure how though, because bathroom scale won't work because it's over 300lbs. My steering is fine and I haven't been "scarred" by any semi's. I need to look into the air suspension for the rear end....

[muddy tires]

I need to try and get my tongue weight calculated somehow. I'm not sure how though, because bathroom scale won't work because it's over 300lbs.

Check out The Black Pearl's link. It shows you how to use a bathroom scale and some basic physics to determine tongue weight.



http://www.etrailer.com/faq/trailer-towing-tips.asp

[02LTZNole]

I saw that on his link to etrailer and I understand the concept of what is pictured. But I didn't see a formula so is it just multiply the weight by the distance between the poles in feet? What would happen if you used inches? So in the caption where is says "multiple" it should really say "multiply"?

Ex: Scale reads 200lbs. Distance between pipes is 3'. It would be 200 x 3 or 600lbs? That's it?

[ds8]

I saw that on his link to etrailer and I understand the concept of what is pictured. But I didn't see a formula so is it just multiply the weight by the distance between the poles in feet? What would happen if you used inches? So in the caption where is says "multiple" it should really say "multiply"?

Ex: Scale reads 200lbs. Distance between pipes is 3'. It would be 200 x 3 or 600lbs? That's it?

The text should read "multiple", you can replace it with "different" if you want. He is setting the sum of the torques to zero. (1ft*Tongue Weight lbs.) = ft-lbs... if the tongue weight is 400lbs, then the torque is 400 ft-lbs. This has to equal the bathroom scale reading times the distance from the tongue to the scale. The futhur the scale is from the tongue, the lower the reading on the scale. So if it is three feet away, the reading will be 400/3 = 133lbs.

This relys on you having the tongue 1 ft from the other support. Just use feet to save yourself the pain of the math.

I showed the backwards example. You should place the tongue on the board 1 foot from the block. then take a reading on your bathroom scale and measure the distance from you bathroom scale to the tongue. Multiply the scale reading times the distance to the tongue. That is roughly your tongue weight with a small bit of error.

DS

[paulyjsob]

If your trailer is set up right, there's no need for a weight distribution hitch. With a 5000 boat/trailer, you're looking at 350-400 tongue weight..

[02LTZNole]

I've got to get the tongue weight measured. I'm going to try to do that this weekend. That will determine what my next steps should be. But a tranny cooler and stiffer shocks / air suspension are needed I think for sure.

[The Black Pearl]

I've got to get the tongue weight measured. I'm going to try to do that this weekend. That will determine what my next steps should be. But a tranny cooler and stiffer shocks / air suspension are needed I think for sure.

I would buy the Tru-cool transmission cooler by Long. It is what the top transmission shops in my area install and recommend.

[PAblzr]

[quote=liquidtherapy;191037]As far as weight distribution goes, towing a boat is different than towing a trailer. A boat's tounge weight is less than that of a trailer..... quote]


WOW !!!!
I did not know that. Stupid me. :confused:

All the years I have been towing stuff I must have been doing it wrong.

Of course for your statement to be true every single personal item in your boat was bolted to the deck and could not be moved within the boat. In addition your boat's fuel tank could not be 1/4 full, or 1/2 full, or 3/4 full to change the tongue weight. And finally the bunkers, rollers, winch stand, and spare tire mount were all welded in place on your boat trailer and there was no way to adjust the boat front or back on the trailer.

Thanks for educating me.

[brettster98]

ive put the timbren rubber spacers that replace your stock axle rubber stops with great success they cost about 175.00 and bolt on in minutes and also add around 2000 pounds of rear support. alittle more bounce when empty but graet with a load..

[02LTZNole]

ive put the timbren rubber spacers that replace your stock axle rubber stops with great success they cost about 175.00 and bolt on in minutes and also add around 2000 pounds of rear support. alittle more bounce when empty but graet with a load..

Forgive my ignorance but can you tell me a little more about these spacers? Should I just search for axle rubber stops? Where can I find these on the truck now? Where did you get the new ones? Thank you

[brettster98]

www.timbren.com is the web site showed a picture of where they go . auto parts store might have them.. i bought mine at a spring and suspension supplier. if you need more help let me know. brett

[rcam81]

A good place to get your rig weighed is a grain elevator. The ones around here charge $5.00 for three different weights...ie...tongue,total and axle.

[spepi]

I am looking at Timbrens too. I am looking to buy a travel trailer with a gvrw of 6400lbs.

[Doc Brown]

As far as weight distribution goes, towing a boat is different than towing a trailer. A boat's tounge weight is less than that of a trailer, thus the need for weight-distribution is reduced. On top of less tounge weight, you mentioned the boat trailer has surge brakes. If this is true you are limited to the brand of weight distribution you can use, as most do not work with surge. The turning radius is not hindered as much unless you use a friction sway-control, which you must remove every time you back-up. Always keep in mind that towing ratings of a vehicle are based on the weight of the vehicle plus one person(driver) and fuel. As you add passengers and cargo to the vehicle, the weight you can safely tow goes down by that amount. Also, don't go by the numbers on the hitch, go by what the vehicle is rated to tow. Hitches are almost always rated higher than the vehicle can tow. I tow a 3500lb boat with my 'Voy. I can say it does fairly well, however you will know it's there on hills with the I-6. I got the tune from wait4me and hopefully that will help. Also get a trany cooler for added protection.

:iagree: I'm not sure any WD can be used with surge brakes. I've never seen a boat trailer with a WD hitch, so I'm not convinced its nessesary. I think using AirLift bags is the way to go. I've used them before and they are excellent.

:confused: There isn't any reason a friction sway control bar should hinder backing up unless its too tight. I never take mine off until I'm ready to drop the trailer.

[mdrobins35]

So based on all of the posts above. Everyone is saying that a 4500# totally load boat is okay to pull behind a TB with a hitch that is rated at 4000/400 just because the tongue weight will right at 400? Isn't that going over the max weight of the hitch itself?

Sorry, just a little confused about the numbers...Thanks for the help.

[mdrobins35]

Anyone have some Information?

Thanks

[fooldancing]

So based on all of the posts above. Everyone is saying that a 4500# totally load boat is okay to pull behind a TB with a hitch that is rated at 4000/400 just because the tongue weight will right at 400? Isn't that going over the max weight of the hitch itself?

Sorry, just a little confused about the numbers...Thanks for the help.



I was wondering this myself. I have a travel trailer and no weight distribution hitch at this time. I looked on the factory hitch and the non weight dis. hitch rating is the 400lbs/4000lbs max. I know my older camper is heavier than this, I was told the tongue weighs around 550-600lbs. Should I look into borrowing (not really wanting too) a full sized truck to tow this UNTIL my budget lets me get a weight hitch?? I won't be towing more than 200 miles round trip away from home.

Thanks and I am sorry for resurecting this old thred I just need to know since my wife wants to go camping here real soon.

Matt M. Sorry for the thred hi-jack. I just need to know and thought it fit here.

[Doc Brown]

I was wondering this myself. I have a travel trailer and no weight distribution hitch at this time. I looked on the factory hitch and the non weight dis. hitch rating is the 400lbs/4000lbs max. I know my older camper is heavier than this, I was told the tongue weighs around 550-600lbs. Should I look into borrowing (not really wanting too) a full sized truck to tow this UNTIL my budget lets me get a weight hitch?? I won't be towing more than 200 miles round trip away from home.

Thanks and I am sorry for resurecting this old thred I just need to know since my wife wants to go camping here real soon.

Matt M. Sorry for the thred hi-jack. I just need to know and thought it fit here.

The issue is not one of what the hitch will hold, but how it affects the vehicle. The TB has a soft suspension. The weight of your trailer's toungue will force the front end of your truck to rise, taking weight off of the front wheels, thereby reducing control of the truck. It will also increase the chance for trailer sway. Find a way to get the W/D hitch and a sway control bar. I only have a 17' TT and I wouldn't tow without either of them.