Lighting my rear

[jauto98]

Hey all, I was wondering if any of you have installed rear mounted lights to help you see and aid in backing up. Any suggestions, pointers, tips, anything. Can't see to well with the factory reverse lights on my TB, especially with my tinted windows. Got the pilot light kit and figuring how to wire it so they come on when I go into reverse, turn them on manually, and to turn them off totally if possible. Thanks in advance

Jeff

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

Hey all, I was wondering if any of you have installed rear mounted lights to help you see and aid in backing up. Any suggestions, pointers, tips, anything. Can't see to well with the factory reverse lights on my TB, especially with my tinted windows. Got the pilot light kit and figuring how to wire it so they come on when I go into reverse, turn them on manually, and to turn them off totally if possible. Thanks in advance

Jeff

In my last vehicle, I had a set of halogen reverse bulbs that plugged in place of the 3157's we have in the trucks as-stock. They did quite a nice job. However with the problems with tail and reverse bulbs burning out that seems to be commonplace with TB/Envoy people, I don't feel like it'd be a good idea for my Envoy. If someone else has other thoughts on that, I'd be glad to hear 'em because I kept the bulbs from that old vehicle ($7/per I'm not going to replace unless I have to) and they're the right type to fit in.

Also what about using the LED lights in the tails, turn markers, etc.??

As far as wiring up how you're talking about with separate lights, I'd say you just have to splice into the wiring harnesses for the stock lights and mount a switch on or near the dash for manual operation.

[jauto98]

Actually, I was thinking more in the line of adding additional sets, kind of like fog lights they sell in a kit for rear use. The stockers don't cut it for me when I go into reverse.

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

Actually, I was thinking more in the line of adding additional sets, kind of like fog lights they sell in a kit for rear use. The stockers don't cut it for me when I go into reverse.

I agree; hence why I want to just replace bulbs on mine. Like I said, the best bet is to get ahold of the wiring diagrams for the reverse bulbs and tap into the same wiring harness. You can easily do that to make them come on when you shift into reverse, but turning them on/off manually is going to require you to wire a switch in there under the dash (probably from the shifter area)

Only thing I don't know is if that means you'll end up turning on/off your stock reverse lamps along with those or not. I'm sure there's a way to make it not affect the stockers though.

[madman522]

How about this to add on to your hitch?

See link below:
http://www.masterhitch.com/suv-truckAcc.asp?prodID=59

[Envoy Fan]

How about this to add on to your hitch?

See link below:
http://www.masterhitch.com/suv-truckAcc.asp?prodID=59


:eek:

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

:eek:

:werd: that looks slick as hell :cool:

[Wingaman]

I am a retired Deputy and my last cruiser was a Ford Expedition (Crime Scene Unit). I had this same trouble when turning around on tiny dirt roads in the woods at O dark 30, so I bought 2 small driving lights and had our radio shop install them to 2 blank switches on my siren box.

They worked well...when they weren't burnt out. It seems that due to the location they were installed, under the rear bumper, attached to the tow bar, all of the road grime and water would manage to get into the bulb and burn out the halogens, activated or not. Fortunately, the shop kept replacing them for me about every 3 months or so. I couldn't have afforded to do that.

That tow rig was obviously built for the location that it is located. My concern would be if it put out enough light in the direction (the sides) that you really need it. I suspect it is designed for the hitch.

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

That tow rig was obviously built for the location that it is located. My concern would be if it put out enough light in the direction (the sides) that you really need it. I suspect it is designed for the hitch.

I'm moderately sure you could upgrade the bulbs to a higher wattage.... as long as the housing could handle it and would remain weather sealed.

[Workin_Progress]

You could wire the two bulbs into the same backup circuit, but there are a few issues you might have to contend with.
First, would your stock fuse be enough to handle the extra bulbs?
Second, Do you REALLY want to hack your wiring harness?

As for wiring in a switch, well thats simple. Wire the switch in PARALLEL to the main harness, and also, include a secondary voltage source so you could use the lights WITHOUT being in reverse.

Anyone need more details on this feel free to email me.

Twizted_Creation@msn.com

[jauto98]

Well, I am in the mist of installing some 55 watt halogen lights in the rear of my TB and was wondering if someone could help me out to confirm some wiring issues. This topic was mentioned here:

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=2287&page=3

But figured, I restart an old thread I had started awhile ago.

Here is what I plan on doing. After much thought, I decided to make it so I can just switch it on manually. Thought it would be simpler instead of having it switched on automatically when both reverse and parking lights are on (so they only come on at night). This is a schematic I drew up. Let me know what can be done and if I'm doing this right.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/RearLightsSchematic.jpg

[jimmyjam]

thats all butter baby. you can go with thinner wire for the switch if you want though and a 500mA fuse, the draw on a bosch relay is something like 200mA

[jauto98]

Thanks jimmyjam. By the way, hows this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/RearLights.jpg

Also, if anyone can make a schematic for the following conditions, may implement it, depending on the complexity of it:

On when I want it on, no matter what conditions
Off when I want it off, no matter what conditons
Switched on automatically when both reverse lights and parking lights are on for night time conditions.
Lighted switch to tell me that the lights are on in manual mode.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/BackupItems.jpg

[jauto98]

After much research, I came up with this schematic. Basically, this is what I am thinking. Using an SPDT switch, the following conditions will follow:

Top will be when I want the lights to come on.
Middle will be lights will be off, no matter what
Bottom will be lights will be on only when vehicle is in reverse and at night

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/BackupSchem.jpg

For power/signal hooking up, I figured I get a trailer harness plug end such as this:

http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/620146_lg.jpg

I figured the trailer harness is fused and should be able to power the 2-55watt lights. Any comments? Any suggestions? Anything?

[Dacomputernerd]

Cant wait to see how it turns out!:yes:

[jauto98]

Yeah, I'm interested in doing this, but not sure if the setup/logic is correct. More mechanically inclined than electrical.

[Blulytes]

Yeah, I'm interested in doing this, but not sure if the setup/logic is correct. More mechanically inclined than electrical.

You are also very "paint" inclined!

[jauto98]

You are also very "paint" inclined!

Hahaha... thanks! Actually the program used to draw the schematic is AutoCAD (Autodesk Building Systems 2005 actually). Its a very, very expensive "paint" program :yes: !

[jimmyjam]

Yeah, I'm interested in doing this, but not sure if the setup/logic is correct. More mechanically inclined than electrical.
I guess that means you want a thumbs up :) looks good. technically you could replace two of those relays with transistors but umm make believe I didn't just say that.

[itstrick]

That looks quite helpful

[jauto98]

I guess that means you want a thumbs up :) looks good. technically you could replace two of those relays with transistors but umm make believe I didn't just say that.

Man, don't confuse me with new stuff.. aaaaahhhhh :worried: j/k. Hey if it can be simplified, let me know. Having 3 relays seems to busy, but I don't know all the different ways to wire a similar circuit. I just don't want to wire something up to find the magic smoke pouring out. :eek:

[dach95]

I can't wait to see the result...:)

[Dacomputernerd]

Man, don't confuse me with new stuff.. aaaaahhhhh :worried: j/k. Hey if it can be simplified, let me know. Having 3 relays seems to busy, but I don't know all the different ways to wire a similar circuit. I just don't want to wire something up to find the magic smoke pouring out. :eek:

MMMMM.... Magic smoke :D

[jimmyjam]

Man, don't confuse me with new stuff.. aaaaahhhhh :worried: j/k. Hey if it can be simplified, let me know. Having 3 relays seems to busy, but I don't know all the different ways to wire a similar circuit. I just don't want to wire something up to find the magic smoke pouring out. :eek:yeah I'm talking from an engineering standpoint using transistors for the low current switches would save engergy but in this scenario it is a nitpick, plus you've got to have current limiting resistors on the transistors and a diode across the relay coil to avoid blowing your transistors... just forget I said anything... and since I'm nitpicking, save those pics to .png you'll save a few kb.. lol you can tell me to shut up at any point

well one thing you may want to do is fuse the 12V constant wire between the harness and the last relay just incase, who knows what/where the fuse for that line is. that'll help avoid any magic smoke.

[jauto98]

[QUOTE=jimmyjam]yeah I'm talking from an engineering standpoint using transistors for the low current switches would save engergy but in this scenario it is a nitpick, plus you've got to have current limiting resistors on the transistors and a diode across the relay coil to avoid blowing your transistors... QUOTE]

:eek: :confused: :cry: :undecided :confused: :worried: :mad: :( :rolleyes: :laugh: :)

The fuse part is a good idea though. Thanks!

[tb05]

MMMMM.... Magic smoke :D


Mmmmm... Manatuska Thunderf***... MMMMMMM :rotfl: :rotfl:

if you have to ask,
:x

[tb05]

Yeah, I'm interested in doing this, but not sure if the setup/logic is correct. More mechanically inclined than electrical.

Jeff, that looks sweet. If you do that, write it up and that'll be my next mod... Good going! :yes:

[ScarabEpic22]

Let us know how it works out!!!

BTW, will the install date be this weekend?

[jauto98]

Will do. It may take me a while. I need to get the parts and it takes me a while to find the "perfect" part. Right now, since I've got the schematic down, I'm picturing how its going to be installed in my mind. Thinking what items I need, a general idea of where some of the parts will be located and such. I don't like to rush into doing mods that are the first for me to do. I'd rather take my time and make sure its done right. Want to keep as much as the magic smoke as possible :) .

Right now I'm trying to locate the "perfect" switch. I rather have a rocker switch like this:

http://trailvoy.com/images/articles/41-reversecam/CameraSwitch.jpg

Which illuminates when on. I don't particually like the look of toggle switches, which seem to be what SPDT switches are. I was thinking of using the 4wd switch, but reading the back of the connectors in my service manuals gives me nightmares. If anyone can figure out how to wire the 4wd switch to the schematic above, it would make a pretty factory looking install, albeit the labels would be wrong.

As for the 3 relays, I'm thinking of putting it in that little compartment on the driver side in the cargo area to protect the relays from the weather. My main holdup is where to fit the harness up to that area.

If anyone has any input, would be glad to consider it. My time frame is that I will start the install Thanksgiving week. Finishing it is unknown. Ever since we switch to daylight savings, the more and more I need these lamps. Thats my incentive to get it done asap... hehehe.

[ScarabEpic22]

I hear you about DST, Ive really noticed it lately that it is really dark back there, especially when I am on a residential street with no lights.

[greythunder]

Actually i dont think that toggle switch lools that bad. Maybe you can see if u can locate a foglight button and use that.

[jauto98]

Actually i dont think that toggle switch lools that bad. Maybe you can see if u can locate a foglight button and use that.

Actually, thats my switch for my backup camera, which is an SPST switch. For the backup lights, I need a SPDT or I'm thinking a DPDT switch. I'm finding it difficult to locate an SPDT or DPDT that is illuminated when I turn the lights on manually at least. Everything I have seen are toggle switches. I would prefer to find an SPDT or DPDT switch that is close to the switch I currently have. So... my search continues....:mad:

[greythunder]

U try ebay??? I found some toggle swtiches on there so maybe u might give that a shot.

[jauto98]

A work in progress... a little teaser pic if anyone cares...

http://gallery.trailvoy.com/data/500/medium/IMG_1766.JPG

[tb05]

A work in progress... a little teaser pic if anyone cares...

Looking good, Jeff. :yes:
Hmmm... now I'm gonna have to find someplace warm to work soon, I'm not putting on backup lights when it is 15deg. w/ a 15-20 mph wind. :no:

[ScarabEpic22]

A work in progress... a little teaser pic if anyone cares...

http://gallery.trailvoy.com/data/500/medium/IMG_1766.JPG
Looks good so far...!:D

[zamar]

Where did you get the lights?

[jauto98]

Where did you get the lights?

I got them at Auto Zone. Not sure if they work or not, got most of the wiring done. Was planning on running the light relay off the battery based on my schematic above instead of my trailer harness, but someone told me that its not good to run off the battery as the relay will be on all the time, thus, have the possibility of causing a fire, so, need to find a hot wire when the ignition is on that is capable on handling the schematic. :duh:

[jimmyjam]

On all the time? :confused: I wouldn't worry about it, as long as it is fused properly.

[jauto98]

On all the time? :confused: I wouldn't worry about it, as long as it is fused properly.

Well, the relay would have power to it all the time, thus making it hot, and possibly causing a fire. The three relays are currently located in that small covered cubby hole on the driver side cargo wall. So the heat won't be be able to dissipate, so, that is my concern. Hopefully that positive lead in the trailer harness is off when the ignition is off.

[jimmyjam]

it'll only be warm when the coil has current going through it: when the light is on. the circuit connected to the battery is just like a switch in your house, when it is off, its off, there is no current through it. even when it is on there is very little voltage drop across it.

[jauto98]

Thats what I thought, may just try it off the battery first and see if the relays get warm. Basically, running a 14 guage wire off the battery post under the passenger seat with a 15amp fuse inline close to the battery. The switch power is off a 14 guage wire with a 3amp fuse coming off the rain sensor fuse using add-a-fuse.

[jauto98]

Okay, got home and checked my trailer plug. I don't know if its just mine or not, but for some reason, I am not getting any power off my positive pin on my trailer harness when I touch the black lead to my ground pin and the red lead to my positve pin using my voltmeter. This is when the truck is off, in accessory mode, and on. I get no power, no volts. When I have my parking lights on, I get 12 volts on my voltmeter when I have my black lead on my ground pin and my red on parking pin. Am I missing something? Shouldn't I have a reading for my positive pin in my harness? :mad: I should get something as supposedly in the manual, that pin is off battery power.

[sp3edr4cer]

Actually, I was thinking more in the line of adding additional sets, kind of like fog lights they sell in a kit for rear use. The stockers don't cut it for me when I go into reverse.

there are some lights you can add to your hitch that a buddy of mine put on his 1500. when he put it in reverse it looked like daylight behind that thing

[ScarabEpic22]

Okay, got home and checked my trailer plug. I don't know if its just mine or not, but for some reason, I am not getting any power off my positive pin on my trailer harness when I touch the black lead to my ground pin and the red lead to my positve pin using my voltmeter. This is when the truck is off, in accessory mode, and on. I get no power, no volts. When I have my parking lights on, I get 12 volts on my voltmeter when I have my black lead on my ground pin and my red on parking pin. Am I missing something? Shouldn't I have a reading for my positive pin in my harness? :mad: I should get something as supposedly in the manual, that pin is off battery power.
That pin is used to provide a constant, not switched power, to a travel trailer. To get it to feed the power back to the plug, you have to hook up the extra wire under the hood. It is right near the extra pin on the underhood fusebox.

[jauto98]

That pin is used to provide a constant, not switched power, to a travel trailer. To get it to feed the power back to the plug, you have to hook up the extra wire under the hood. It is right near the extra pin on the underhood fusebox.

:duh: :o :duh: After you just said wire under the hood, it dawned on me to hook up that wire. Glad someone is thinking for me :yes: :) ! Oh well, I'll just leave it as is with my backup light wiring. Hopefully will hook it up either on my lunch hour or during the weekend. I'd rather pull my vehicle outside in day light checking connections and powering anything up instead of using a flashlight and hoping I made the right connections.

[apellon]

Went to NAPA bought 2 of the round flood lights they carry. Cost like 9 bucks each. They come with the bracket and everything. Bolted them to the underside of my bumper. Connected/Spilced them to the wire on my 7pin connector of the hitch. Easy as pie. I'll post pics.

[jauto98]

Oh so freaking close getting everything connected! :( :mad: :mad: . Had the battery disconnected, the grounds connected, switch partially installed. About to hook up the main power with the 15amp fuse and find out that the ring terminal to tap into the positive battery post under the rear seat is one size freaking too small! Grrrrr why me... why me... :confused:

Sorry for my rant! Don't know when I can get out and get the right freaking ring terminal...

[jimmyjam]

obviously you're not as ghetto as I am, in that scenario I grab some snips and cut the top of the ring terminal and widen it.
Murphys law says the ring terminal will always be smaller than the bolt you put it on.

[Envoy Fan]

obviously you're not as ghetto as I am, in that scenario I grab some snips and cut the top of the ring terminal and widen it.
Murphys law says the ring terminal will always be smaller than the bolt you put it on.

Ghetto #2 is take a drill bit and ream the hole larger :laugh:

[jimmyjam]

Ghetto #2 is take a drill bit and ream the hole larger :laugh:I speak from experience when I say that the drill bit will grab onto the terminal and whip it around, taking the flesh on your fingers with it.
Trust me, just cut it :) Don't try and be a hero :laugh:

[jauto98]

obviously you're not as ghetto as I am, in that scenario I grab some snips and cut the top of the ring terminal and widen it.
Murphys law says the ring terminal will always be smaller than the bolt you put it on.

Yeah, I was thinking about that, but I figured, I might as well do the right thing and get the right one. Last thing I want is to see a burnt TB. Anyway, where can i get the right ring for the positive post. I'd like to make only one trip! Grrrr...

[jimmyjam]

I'm pretty sure the one I used for that bolt I had to cut. its not that big a deal as long as you only widen it enough to fit snug, it won't do any harm.

[jauto98]

hmmmm... ok, got everything connected, went to the trailer plug, and found some water in there. Here are some pictures:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1678.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1814.jpg

Somehow, water is getting in to where the wires are hooked up to the receptacle base. Any suggestions to make this type of plug water resistent? Pretty sure water inside the plug is bad for electrical stuff. Would like to make it so that I can access the wires in case I need to do something later.

[tb05]

Jeff, when I made my semi-custom hook up, I used liquid electic tape on the back side to keep water out. Works great, forms a great seal. I discovered its many uses when I began re-building my $100 boat. Most marine stores, (Boat US, Cabelas, Bass Pro )
sell the stuff. I think I've even seen it at Home Depot. :m2:

[jauto98]

Jeff, when I made my semi-custom hook up, I used liquid electic tape on the back side to keep water out. Works great, forms a great seal. I discovered its many uses when I began re-building my $100 boat. Most marine stores, (Boat US, Cabelas, Bass Pro )
sell the stuff. I think I've even seen it at Home Depot. :m2:

Is this what you mean?

3M
15 oz. Scotchkote™ Electrical Coating
Provides vinyl tapes with an extra oil, moisture and corrosion-resistant layer of flexible coating for problem areas.
Internet # 300030
Catalog # 100022527

Thanks

[tb05]

Probably the same, but I use this:

http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTarget=search&hvarTextId=39763&hvarAID=nextag&cm_mmc=NexTag-_-Marine%20%26%20Electronics_Marine%20Accessories_Ma rine%20Care%20Products-_--1-_-Liquid%20Electrical%20Tape&afsrc=1


Forms a protective, waterproof, UV resistant, dielectric coating. Prevents corrosion on wires and terminals. Fast drying formula. Black.

It is messy, so be careful. I have used it in many places on my boat, 2 + years and holding great. To remove it you slice it open and peel it off. Make sure everything is clean and dry, as it effects the way it comes off when you remove it. It will stick to almost anything, including glass.

[jauto98]

Well, hopefully I got everything straighten out. Had to rewire my backup camera switch (now its under my dash near the the vents), so I figured I rerun my wires so they are grouped better. Think I solved my moisture problem in my trailering plug (thanks tb05), and am pretty sure I got the wiring set. Will test it out soon. Here is the wiring schematic I wired the lights:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/ReverseLightSchem.jpg

Any input would be great before I plug it up and test :worried: . 14 Guage wire was used throughout the mod. Just want to simplify it. The rain sensor fuse was used so that the ignition has to be on for the lights to turn on.

[jauto98]

Well, didn't get any replies, so figured, I check the schematics again, plug in the trailering harness, put the fuses in and see what happened. Turned the ignition to ON. Heard a click, and that was it. :mad:



:mad: That its freaking daylight and mid afternoon and I can't freaking see how bright the lights are. Switched on manually, lights turned on. Covered my light sensors, switched to reverse, lights turned on. Now I just need to permanently install the switch to the dash. Hopefully the magic smoke won't being coming out.

[jimmyjam]

I'm not following, is it working? dim? huh?

[jauto98]

I'm not following, is it working? dim? huh?

Its working, just can't get the full effects of the lights. Need to try them out when it gets dark tonight! :yes:

[tb05]

Jeff, great job on the schematic post. Looks good from here. When it gets dark, send some pics. Once again, thanks for spending the time to keep the fourm updated, too. :yes: :m2:

[jauto98]

Question. I am not happy how my lighted switch illuminates, not bright enought. As a result, thinking of just disconnecting the ground from the switch. Is this a good idea so the switch does not illuminate? Don't want to buy another switch as its like a $12 rocker switch.

To let me know that the lights are on, thinking of adding an illuminated light. This is what I was thinking of getting:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062561&cp=2032058.2032233.2032297&parentPage=family

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2160471w345.jpg

Hopefully this for automotive use. I figure I use the ground that was on the switch to the LED and run a wire to the light wire on the "Light Relay", pin #87. At least then I will know when the lights actually turn on!

[jauto98]

Well... since someone asked to post night pics... here is what it looks like in my reverse camera.

No Lights
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1845a.jpg

OEM Backup Lights
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1848a.jpg

OEM and Aftermarket (2-55watt) Backup Lights
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1847a.jpg

I think its a dramatic look.

[jauto98]

And here it looks from the outside:

No Lights
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1849a.jpg

OEM Backup Lights
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1850a.jpg

OEM and Aftermarket (2-55watt) Backup Lights
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1851a.jpg

Looking good. Big difference.

[jauto98]

And heres the other pics for reference:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1858a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1857a.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1856a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/IMG_1855a.jpg

[jauto98]

On a side note, the lights have not been aimed yet, so vision could be improved. I just eyeballed it to see if they look half-butt inline :laugh: . Anyways, hopes this little mod works out for everyone. As you can see I my TB hasn't turned to ash yet :rotfl: , so I guess it works and wired alright!

[Dacomputernerd]

Looks great! hoping to do that when my lease comes up :yes:

[ScarabEpic22]

Very nice!!!

[tb05]

Nice job, Jeff! Thanks for posting all the work you did. This will be the second mod for me that I did after you posted it. Very Impressive! How to article material. :yes: