View Full Version : Nitrous/fuel problem?!?
Went to SAR yesterday to get some runs with the NOS wet kit installed. The nitrous jet was 030 and fuel 043. Well i started to hit it about at 3500 rpm to be safe. Well about 5k i feel and hear this big thrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr coming from the rear of my vehicle, so i cut it off. Now my car smokes like its running rich. Its hard to start and idles really rough. The smoke smells like right after you run seafoam. I thought that maybe i flooded the intake with fuel, but i thought at least it would be gone by now, ive driven 100 miles. It still hard to start, still smokes, and still idles rough. Im guessin o2 sensor, Any ideas?
Went to SAR yesterday to get some runs with the NOS wet kit installed. The nitrous jet was 030 and fuel 043. Well i started to hit it about at 3500 rpm to be safe. Well about 5k i feel and hear this big thrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr coming from the rear of my vehicle, so i cut it off. Now my car smokes like its running rich. Its hard to start and idles really rough. The smoke smells like right after you run seafoam. I thought that maybe i flooded the intake with fuel, but i thought at least it would be gone by now, ive driven 100 miles. It still hard to start, still smokes, and still idles rough. Im guessin o2 sensor, Any ideas?
Well, couple things immediatley come to mind...but I'm NOT an NOS expert.
First, are you sure the fuel jet is shut down and not leaking fuel into the intake?
If the O2 sensor went south during the run, you *should* have a SES light....most late model vehicles are pretty quick to set the light if the O2 readings appear too far off. - You didn't mention whether your SES light is lit.
Does the exhaust smell like sulfer? - Like maybe you melted down the Catalytic converter by dumping fuel into it, which is now causing a blockage in the exhaust. One of the functions of the catalyst is to reduce NOx emissions and you were dumping in plenty of NO2. (This would result in a hard to start condition and smell in the exhaust.....if its smoking though, something else might also be wrong).
If you were too lean with the NOS, its very possible you burned up the valves or pistons. Too much NOS without additional fuel makes for a really hot burn, which can easily burn up valves, pistons, etc. This most likely would account for smoke & smell....hopefully, this isn't your problem. (What does the oil now look like? What about the coolant?)
This gives you some things to check, although smoke, smell and rough idle don't sound promising.....really don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but ever watch Nascar, when a valve drops or a piston goes they smoke and run badly.
Dacomputernerd
11-17-2005, 10:26 PM
Adding to what Ylab said...
I was reading up on some Nitrous info/ installation articles, and your fuel solonoid (to provide extra fuel while the nitrous is injected) could be jammed open (with a particle of some sort), dumping too much fuel into the engine, and making it run rough and act like you are discribing... Just :m2:
ieatglue
11-17-2005, 10:36 PM
Adding to what Ylab said...
I was reading up on some Nitrous info/ installation articles, and your fuel solonoid (to provide extra fuel while the nitrous is injected) could be jammed open (with a particle of some sort), dumping too much fuel into the engine, and making it run rough and act like you are discribing... Just :m2:
There's school homework and then there's 'extra' homework, eh kelvyn :D
ScarabEpic22
11-17-2005, 10:45 PM
There's school homework and then there's 'extra' homework, eh kelvyn :D
HAHAHAHA, you said "eh" because your in Canada!!:laugh:
Naww, one of my good friends parents live in Vancouver, and Ive been to Canada many times, so I hear it all the time!
Dacomputernerd
11-17-2005, 10:48 PM
Yep, looking into N2O for when i get a used Jeep TJ/YJ/CJ when i get my licence next year. Im gonna do it up for some mudding and rock crawling :D
GTPprix
11-18-2005, 12:33 AM
Pull the plugs, sounds like you either nuked a plug or a ring land.
ses light just came on. I think i solved the problem. The guy told me to reverse my jets, which was wrong, so basically i was throwing wayyy to much fuel into the intake. The smoke is black and reaks of fuel. Im pretty sure i either burned up the plugs and o2 sensor or a combination or both. The only reason i think its that is b/c normal driving after idle is just the same as it was b4. Next question is how much do the run and can westers tune them out and wat do we gap our spark plugs.
thanks guys for the responses
ScarabEpic22
11-18-2005, 02:09 AM
I think the spark plugs need to be gapped at .042 according to another thread.
As for the Westers, ask Brian. He should be able to help more than I can.
tblazed
11-18-2005, 11:29 AM
I think the spark plugs need to be gapped at .042 according to another thread.
.043 as per my reply in that thread, and the spec from ACDelco I posted for the 41-965 plug (41-965 plug was used only with the 2002 I6). See http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?p=30863#post30863 and the link to ACDelco.
They apparently revised the gap sometime in 2001. My OEM 41-965 plugs in my Nov 2001 built engine were gapped at .043 when I took them out and checked them. My guess is they reduced the gap to reduce secondary voltage and improve reliability of the coils, and possibly help prevent misfire at WOT 6,000+ RPM.
Dacomputernerd
11-18-2005, 02:23 PM
Good luck on fixing the problem :D
I cant wait to hear some of the numbers (hp, ft/lbs) you are pulling with the nitrous.
BTW- Does anyone know the stock rev limit on the I6? What about the 5.3 V8? (for the V8 i think i've had it up around 5300, but what is the stock top end?)
jimmyjam
11-18-2005, 02:28 PM
BTW- Does anyone know the stock rev limit on the I6? What about the 5.3 V8? (for the V8 i think i've had it up around 5300, but what is the stock top end?)youve been stealing your dads truck and doing launches in the parking lot again?
My I6 shifts up to 6K, I think the westers tune is set to the factory shift point
Dacomputernerd
11-18-2005, 02:30 PM
youve been stealing your dads truck and doing launches in the parking lot again?
My I6 shifts up to 6K, I think the westers tune is set to the factory shift point
That never happened :rolleyes:
HAHA:laugh: Just in my Nonno's (Grampa's) back yard, and only revved it to about 5300 before i had to let off caz my "runway" was comming to an end...and i needed to brake :D
tblazed
11-18-2005, 05:04 PM
Don't know if this is any different in later year models...
Excerpt from 2002 Vortec 4200 I6 Specifications
WOT Upshift 6100 RPM
RPM Limiting 6300 RPM
Dacomputernerd
11-18-2005, 05:11 PM
Don't know if this is any different in later year models...
Excerpt from 2002 Vortec 4200 I6 Specifications
WOT Upshift 6100 RPM
RPM Limiting 6300 RPM
Man the I6 really loves to rev :D
I wonder what a safe WOT Upshift RPM and Rev limit would be with the westers tune and the I6?
ScarabEpic22
11-19-2005, 04:02 AM
Man the I6 really loves to rev :D
I wonder what a safe WOT Upshift RPM and Rev limit would be with the westers tune and the I6?
Yeah it does, I can rev mine to about 6300 easily, maybe even 6400rpms before it automatically shifts no matter what. (yes, I did see the rev specs, but I think I revved mine a little higher a few times.)
It comes in handy trying to beat the little ricer off the line to get around him because he thinks his car is cool and has the wing and stickers and the fart can so he can beat me.:no:
Dont think so buddy, Im already in shifting into second going 40+ when you are barely through the interestion going 20!:laugh: :D
Trailblazin
11-19-2005, 01:03 PM
just out of curiosity, how much punch were u packing in the nos?? I heard since we can not upgrade our internals without paying an arm and leg, the most we can run is about a 50-75shot of NOS. That would still throw us way forward, another thing I heard was using a dry shot....
haven't had first hand experience yet, but will be in the near future....any other ideas??
Well now i just have a rough idle, everything else went away including the ses light. I think maybe b/c of the way our bladethrottlebody is designed is a problem as well. Right now i plan to spray a 75 shot then a 100 when i get my wideband. I wont be happy till i hit 13s. That night at SAR best i could run was 15.8 n/a with 20s in the front and stockers in the rear. Weight was 4750. So basically each rim and tire was 25lbs heavier than stock( weight was 4700). Funny thing was i wasnt the slowest car there.
Laloosh
11-20-2005, 01:39 PM
ure sadly mistaking if u think u can hit 13s with a 75 or a 100 shot. What are ure na mods and what was your trap speed, 60 ft
GTPprix
11-20-2005, 01:44 PM
Well now i just have a rough idle, everything else went away including the ses light. I think maybe b/c of the way our bladethrottlebody is designed is a problem as well. Right now i plan to spray a 75 shot then a 100 when i get my wideband. I wont be happy till i hit 13s. That night at SAR best i could run was 15.8 n/a with 20s in the front and stockers in the rear. Weight was 4750. So basically each rim and tire was 25lbs heavier than stock( weight was 4700). Funny thing was i wasnt the slowest car there.
Did you take the plugs out and inspect them for damage? I dont think you should be touching the spray in the LEAST until you figure out whats wrong with the truck. Like I said before, it sounds like you broke something; especially with a rough idle (Ring land/plug) did you even get the code scanned to find out WTF it was?
APDMC6008
11-20-2005, 01:54 PM
youve been stealing your dads truck and doing launches in the parking lot again?
My I6 shifts up to 6K, I think the westers tune is set to the factory shift point
LMFAO!! :rotfl: :rotfl:
trap is 89.xx 60ft is 2.28, mods are intake exhaust. The code disappeared and just now popped back up. Since the jets were reversed i was spraying a bunch fuel and aournd 30shot of nitrous, so i dont think there is internal damage (might be wrong though), but for peace of mind ill do a leak down or compression test. More than likely, i hope, i fouled up the plugs and ate up an o2 sensor. Its still rough at idle, and drives normally at regular speeds.
GTPprix
11-20-2005, 06:51 PM
Seriously man, run out and pull the plugs, sounds like a text book ring land broke and crushed a spark plug. I hope I'm wrong :(
ieatglue
11-20-2005, 06:52 PM
I used Google Earth to look for some stretch of road but all i could find was a small airport. Do you guys think they'll let me use one of their runways to get some numbers?
Seriously man, run out and pull the plugs, sounds like a text book ring land broke and crushed a spark plug. I hope I'm wrong :(
but im scurred, plus im at work. I kinda hope it is busted though cause then i have an excuse...
GTPprix
11-20-2005, 07:03 PM
LOL dont hope for that, thats not a cheap fix!! :)
LOL dont hope for that, thats not a cheap fix!! :)
maybe, maybe not. The 4200 is pretty cheap,relatively speaking of course, to buy with low miles. Gets some custom pistons and rods from je, cryo the crank, slap some darton sleeves in the sucker, nice port and polish job on the heads, flip the exhaust manifold put on a gt40r, custom fab the exhaust and intercooling piping, sheetmetal intake so the piping wont be extreme, new injectors and fuelpump, relocate the battery to the rear, bs3 or maybe MS to control the mamajama, another grand or 2 for other stuff. Ahhh who am i kidding
Laloosh
11-20-2005, 10:15 PM
15.8 @ 89, say ure making 220whp...run a 100 shot pray to god u dont ping and ull be around 330whp and probably 350wtq that MIGHT get u to mid 14s @ 97-98ish. Hate to brust ure bubble on the 13s
15.8 @ 89, say ure making 220whp...run a 100 shot pray to god u dont ping and ull be around 330whp and probably 350wtq that MIGHT get u to mid 14s @ 97-98ish. Hate to brust ure bubble on the 13s
you do realize that im not stopping the mod process where i am right?
Laloosh
11-20-2005, 11:57 PM
you want 13s that bad? Heres my suggestion, i/h/e/100shot, take out anything and everything from the truck, seats door panels speakers. Buy 15 inch wheels (if they fit, im not sure) with a decent tire, but not a drag radial, so you can actaully generate wheel spin off the line. With the nitrous run a window switching from 3500-6000 rmp, u dont wanna spray low off the line. If u get this pig to weigh around 4200-4300 with u in it, along iwth the smaller tire, u MIGHT MIGHT just bust out a 13.9 and then ull realize its a suv not a race car lol, but whatever floats ure boat dude. its going to take an assload of money to run 13s unless u drop some serious weight
you want 13s that bad? Heres my suggestion, i/h/e/100shot, take out anything and everything from the truck, seats door panels speakers. Buy 15 inch wheels (if they fit, im not sure) with a decent tire, but not a drag radial, so you can actaully generate wheel spin off the line. With the nitrous run a window switching from 3500-6000 rmp, u dont wanna spray low off the line. If u get this pig to weigh around 4200-4300 with u in it, along iwth the smaller tire, u MIGHT MIGHT just bust out a 13.9 and then ull realize its a suv not a race car lol, but whatever floats ure boat dude. its going to take an assload of money to run 13s unless u drop some serious weight
I think i could eek it out with i/h/e 100shot tuned and maybe even a lil headwork. I ran 15.7 n/a @ 89.xx as my fastest time in nothing more than on stock rims and i/e @ 4700lbs. You may use ur truck as a grocery getter, but i use mine for fun and i see 13's as an attainable goal. To each his own:cool:
Laloosh
11-21-2005, 12:41 AM
i dont use my truck as a grocery getter, i use it as a truck, meaning it gets me from point a to b, it sucks on gas, and it goes offroad while doing a lil towing lol. Also what gear ratios do u have and what is the max speed in each gear. Another question, what exactly happens at 5000rmp, i feel a surge of power, does this truck have some kinda of variable timing control? Cause i know im not loosing my mind, i felt it even more after the intake.
i dont use my truck as a grocery getter, i use it as a truck, meaning it gets me from point a to b, it sucks on gas, and it goes offroad while doing a lil towing lol. Also what gear ratios do u have and what is the max speed in each gear. Another question, what exactly happens at 5000rmp, i feel a surge of power, does this truck have some kinda of variable timing control? Cause i know im not loosing my mind, i felt it even more after the intake.
yeah its similar to vtec. Gm calls it cam phaser.
Trailblazin
11-23-2005, 06:58 PM
yeah its similar to vtec. Gm calls it cam phaser.
IceN, im down with whatever it is you wanna do with your TB. Im on a budget though so won't be anything happening too fast, but let me know what mods you have done in terms of engine internals and ill get them checked put over here in Kuwait. Also you were saying that you'd overbore the block and get bigger piston heads. Have you found any for our TB??? Ive been looking for some for ages! Also, how bout some cams for our ride with more lift???
any info you can share plz do so bro, good luck on the work and keep it up, I want my TB to screw the hell out of alotta trucks too. I raced a Dodge Ram "Rumblebee" last night, twice from zero and twice rolling start 40kms. He beat me both times but top end I was gaining, and the road ran out. I did jump in front on both races then his extra 2 cylinders got the advantage of me. BTW i was only a car and a 1/4 behind so its not like i got WHIPPED! other races were wrangler, whipped it by ALOT. Cherokee, beat that, Lumina S (i wish SS) very close race, we raced twice first time he jumped in front and stayed in front but i was gaining and only behind by 50cms. 2nd race, same time jump, neck to neck the whole way and I got in front till about 160kph then he jumped in front. Keep in mind i do have 20s on and my car is 4X4.
IceN, im down with whatever it is you wanna do with your TB. Im on a budget though so won't be anything happening too fast, but let me know what mods you have done in terms of engine internals and ill get them checked put over here in Kuwait. Also you were saying that you'd overbore the block and get bigger piston heads. Have you found any for our TB??? Ive been looking for some for ages! Also, how bout some cams for our ride with more lift???
any info you can share plz do so bro, good luck on the work and keep it up, I want my TB to screw the hell out of alotta trucks too. I raced a Dodge Ram "Rumblebee" last night, twice from zero and twice rolling start 40kms. He beat me both times but top end I was gaining, and the road ran out. I did jump in front on both races then his extra 2 cylinders got the advantage of me. BTW i was only a car and a 1/4 behind so its not like i got WHIPPED! other races were wrangler, whipped it by ALOT. Cherokee, beat that, Lumina S (i wish SS) very close race, we raced twice first time he jumped in front and stayed in front but i was gaining and only behind by 50cms. 2nd race, same time jump, neck to neck the whole way and I got in front till about 160kph then he jumped in front. Keep in mind i do have 20s on and my car is 4X4.
Definetatly will keep everyone posted. I figure if your gona try something new y not share it, plus proving the non-beleivers otherwise is such sweet satisfaction.
On a lighter note, i fixed my problem i beleive. The fuel noid was completely fubar, and leaking gas into the intake. So i solved that problem, car starts right up and idles like stock. Im switching both noids to NX from NOS. On a weirder note i drove 50 miles today to a buddy's house, because he had the tools i needed, and i reset the ave. mile calculator(i dont know if thats tied into anything that was wrong with my car) but with 95% highway and 5% city i was gettin just above 27 mpg. This was with the leaky noid. Then i fixed everything and drove back and only got 21.7. I found that kinda weird, does anyone know where from ave. mpg reads.
tblazed
11-24-2005, 10:43 AM
i was gettin just above 27 mpg. This was with the leaky noid. Then i fixed everything and drove back and only got 21.7.
The displayed mileage is calculated mainly from the injector pulse width among other parameters. There is no actual fuel flow measuring device. If you had gas leaking in elsewhere, the PCM was trying to keep the A/F ratio correct by reducing the injector pulse width and the fuel being sprayed, so the computer was calculating MPG from that reduced pulse width and producing false numbers. That's my guess. Calculating MPG by dividing the actual miles driven by the gallons used will be the most accurate way regardless. Have read plenty of reports, on Edmunds especially, that the DIC will typically show a higher calculated MPG, anywhere from .5 to 1 MPG higher than real MPG.