Engine knocking / Tapping noise [Archive] - Chevy TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer SS and GMC Envoy Forum

: Engine knocking / Tapping noise


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coastie22
05-19-2005, 08:07 PM
I have an 02 trailblazer LS. Whenever It starts, its a smooth idle, but the engine sounds like it knocking really bad. It tends to go away during long trips. I;ve tried using better gas, but I noticed no difference. Is this noise normal or what? Thanks!

Envoy Fan
05-19-2005, 10:36 PM
I have an 02 trailblazer LS. Whenever It starts, its a smooth idle, but the engine sounds like it knocking really bad. It tends to go away during long trips. I;ve tried using better gas, but I noticed no difference. Is this noise normal or what? Thanks!

Well, some of the '02's had a bad cylinder sleeve. Have you had your TB checked for this problem? What is the vin or serial # and someone here can check and see if your vehicle falls within the problem range.

coastie22
05-20-2005, 02:12 PM
I was reading throught the forums and i saw the info about the vin numbers and the special policy number?I called Chevy and the said I might have the problem so i have an appointment monday. If this is the problem she said I could get a new engine. Do you know what the symptoms would be for this. I'm getting ready to move to alaska and a new engine wouldn't hurt my feelings to bad. Thanks!

ParadoxJr
05-25-2005, 02:56 PM
:undecided I am having the same problem as coastie22, I made an appointment today. It sounds like a bloody Diesel engine for about the first 10 to 20 Minutes, before it warms up.

Here is my vin, do you think you could let me know if I am in the same boat.

1GNDT13S322525905

Russ

04TBEXT
05-25-2005, 03:34 PM
For all of you out there contemplating whether or not your engine has a cylinder sleeve problem, I have seen the results...pretty much looks like a hand grenade went off inside the motor. Here's what happens:
1). Engine running along fine...smooth, no noises, everybody's happy.
2). All of a sudden, a loud @*!$^~*+(!!# noise occurs. (the length and degree of this noise is determined by the prevailing engine RPM.
3). The engine immediately stalls and may or may not crank.
4). You get this shaking, empty feeling around your heart that travels into your intestines and to the tips of your fingers....The phrase, Oh" fu#k! may exit your mouth and the reality of what has just happened settles in.
5). Line 1 through line 3 takes about 10 seconds to occur.

What has just happened is a cylinder sleeve just decided to slide down the cylinder casting (engine block). There is now a gap of about 1" - 2" between the deck of the block and the top of the sleeve. As the piston travels up the cylinder, the top compression ring snaps out of the sleeve. At the end of this stroke as piston travel starts downward, this same compression ring snags on the top edge of the fallen cylinder sleeve. The compression ring comes to an abrupt stop, but the piston doesn't. This tears the top ring land and portions of the piston top off the piston. This debris sits at the top of the piston until the next upward stoke occurs. This time it's a little different as the debris on the top of the piston becomes an interference. This inability of the piston/rod (crankshaft) to rotate, stops the engine. If it all lodges in place, engine cranking will not occur...kinda like a stick in the spokes. Cranking the engine thereafter, if it cranks, is like pressing the "puree" button on the mixmaster.

Said in a nutshell, there is usually no forewarning of ill-running symptoms. Failure occurs hard and all at once.

02EnvoySLE Guy
05-26-2005, 01:33 AM
Hate to tell you this, 04tbext, but my truck was supposedly 'knocking' like he is describing when its engine was replaced. (I didn't own the truck then to know for sure but that's what the RO says).

04TBEXT
05-26-2005, 01:39 PM
Yes EnvoyGuy...you are right. It could be possible that some noise(s) may be present prior to complete failure. I like to call these noises before the failure...foreplay. My last post involved (4) failures I was part of. All the operators did not experience any "foreplay". The "****!..What was that noise! condition occured in all instances. 1 of the 4 experienced a no-warning failure during cold engine cranking. I guess it is best to say there is eminent failure and failure...failure which I was describing. I did review the warranty repair order regarding the engine replacement on your particular Envoy. There was no towing charges billed to GM at that visit, so I presume your vehicle was driven into the dealership...

coastie22
05-26-2005, 04:30 PM
Well i got it back. Of course all they went by was the noise. No borescope at all!And they wouldn't when i asked them to.They said no GM motor had that problem over 15,000 miles! They said they've never had to deal with it so they basically said, yea, we hear the noise, no clue what it is, but its not normal, have a great day!They have a special policy that they almost refuse to enforce.

ParadoxJr
05-26-2005, 04:47 PM
Hey Mine in today too... They said that the noise is normal at Start Up. When things are warming up the rockers and lifters make noise. (or something like that). I dunno, maybe the I6 is louder then the V6 or V8 Engines that I have owned... But I swear the damn thing sounds like a diesel when its cold.. :undecided

coastie22
05-27-2005, 11:41 PM
It does sound like a diesal(sp*)but at least we all have it in common, so maybe its normal. I complained to corporate that they didn't borescope it. They shouldn't tell me the noise doesn't sound normal and then not check further. If you hear something wrong, find out what it is so you can eliminate the possibility of the "bad engine" O well, we'll see what happens when they follow up on the complaint.

Jman423
05-27-2005, 11:47 PM
My 03 TB sounds a little rugged when its cold too. I was worried at first, but was told that it was normal.

02EnvoySLE Guy
05-28-2005, 01:43 AM
Well i got it back. Of course all they went by was the noise. No borescope at all!And they wouldn't when i asked them to.They said no GM motor had that problem over 15,000 miles! They said they've never had to deal with it so they basically said, yea, we hear the noise, no clue what it is, but its not normal, have a great day!They have a special policy that they almost refuse to enforce.

BS!! Go to another GM dealership with the truck. Mine had the problem at 17,500 miles. Sounds like the dealer just doesn't want to work.

zrwon
05-28-2005, 03:36 AM
Document ID# 1341528
2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer - 4WD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Special Policy Adjustment - 4.2L (LL8) Bore Liner Cracking #03019 - (Jun 6, 2003)
03019 - Special Policy Adjustment - 4.2L (LL8) Bore Liner Cracking
Certain 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer; GMC Envoy; and Oldsmobile Bravada

Condition
Some customers of 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada with 4.2L (LL8) L6 engine produced during the 2001 calendar year may experience cracking of an engine cylinder bore liner, resulting in engine noise, poor performance, and/or stalls with no engine re-start. Engine replacement is necessary to correct this failure.

Special Policy Adjustment
This special policy covers the condition described above for a period of seven (7) years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.

For vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after June 13, 2003, are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to June 13, 2003 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

Vehicles Involved
Involved are certain 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada model vehicles equipped with 4.2L (RPO LL8) L6 engine and built within the following VIN breakpoints:

Year
Division
Model
From
Through

2002
Chevrolet
TrailBlazer
22100007
22358861

2002
GMC
Envoy
22100001
22358855

2002
Oldsmobile
Bravada
22100005
22358857


Parts Information
Parts required to complete this special policy are to be obtained from General Motors Service Parts Operations (GMSPO).

Part Number
Description
Qty/ Vehicle

88984108
Engine, Goodwrench Service Replacement
1

12569542
Gasket Kit, Intake Manifold
1

88890561
Gasket Kit, Exhaust Manifold
1

24100165
Gasket Kit, Throttle Body
1

12378521 (US)

88901148 (Canada)
Sealant, RTV
As Required


Customer Notification
Customers will be notified of the special policy on their vehicles by General Motors (see copy of typical customer letter included with this bulletin -- actual divisional letter may vary slightly).

Service Procedure

Important
U.S. and Canada Dealers refer to GM Service Bulletin 02-07-30-029A . This bulletin reference is for the Powertrain Quality Center (PQC) at 1-866-654-7654. Prior approval for engine assembly replacement applies to this Special Policy.



Important
The labor time allowance in this recall is different than that currently published in the labor time guide for performing the same operation. In the near future, the labor time guide will be updated with this new information.


Install a new service engine using the procedure outlined in the appropriate Service Manual.


Important
Refer to GM Service Information Bulletin 02-06-01-031 for 4.2L Goodwrench engine service.


Claim Information
For vehicles repaired under the terms of this special policy, submit a claim with the information indicated below:

Repair Performed
Part Count
Part No.
Parts Allow
CC-FC
Labor Op
Labor Hours
Net Item

Replace Engine with Goodwrench Service Engine
--
--
*
MK-95
T5581

**

2WD





10.7


4WD/AWD





13.4


w/gas tank skid shield





Add: 0.4


w/transfer case skid shield





Add: 0.2


w/AC





Add: 0.8


Reimbursement For Previous Repairs (Canadian Dealers ONLY)
NA
NA
NA
MK-95
T5582
0.2

Administrative labor hours
***

* -- The "Parts Allowance" should be the sum total of the current GMSPO Dealer Net price plus applicable Mark-Up or Landed Cost Mark-up (for IPC) for parts needed to complete the repair.

** -- The amount identified in the "Net Item" column should represent the sum total of the Current GMSPO Dealer Net Price plus applicable Mark-Up or Landed Cost Mark-Up (for IPC) for motor oil and miscellaneous supplies needed to perform the required repairs.

*** -- (Canadian Dealers ONLY) The amount identified in the "Net Item" column should represent the customer reimbursement amount.


Customer Reimbursement - For US
All customer requests for reimbursement for previous repairs for the special policy condition will be handled by the Customer Assistance Center, not by dealers.

A General Motors Special Policy Customer Reimbursement Procedure Form is included with the customer letter.


Important
Refer to the GM Service Policies and Procedures Manual, section 6.1.12 for specific procedures regarding customer reimbursement and the form.


Customer Reimbursement - For Canada
Customer requests for reimbursement of previously paid repairs for cylinder bore liner engine replacement are to be submitted prior to or by June 30, 2004. Repairs must have occurred within the seven (7) years of the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, or 160,000 km (100,000 miles), whichever occurs first.

When a customer requests reimbursement, they must provide the following:

Proof of ownership at time of repair.
The original paid receipt confirming the amount of unreimbursed repair expense(s) (including Service Contract deductibles), a description of the repair, and the person or entity performing the repair.
If the work was done by someone other than a GM dealership, the amount of reimbursement will be limited to the amount that the repair would have cost GM to have it completed by a GM dealership.

June, 2003
Dear General Motors Customer:

As the owner of a 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy or Oldsmobile Bravada, your satisfaction with our product is very important to us. Your vehicle was provided with a new vehicle warranty, which covers certain parts of your vehicle for a specified period. These warranties are of considerable value to you if you should experience problems with your vehicle.

This letter is intended to make you aware that some 2002 model year Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada model vehicles may experience a cracking of an engine cylinder bore liner. This will cause engine noise, poor performance, and/or stalls with no engine re-start.

This is not a recall. Do not take your vehicle to your General Motors dealer as a result of this letter unless you believe that your vehicle has the condition as described above.

What We Have Done
To address the above mentioned condition, General Motors is providing owners with special warranty coverage. If this condition occurs on your 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy or Oldsmobile Bravada within seven (7) years of the date your vehicle was originally placed in service or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever occurs first, the condition will be repaired for you at no charge .

What You Should Do
Repairs and adjustments qualifying under this special coverage must be performed by a General Motors dealer. You may want to call the service department at your dealer to find out how long they will need to have your vehicle so that you may schedule the appointment at a time that is a convenient time for you. This will also allow your dealer to order parts if they are not already in stock. Keep this letter with your other important glovebox literature for future reference.

Reimbursement
The enclosed form explains what reimbursement is available and how to request reimbursement if you have paid for repairs for the special policy condition. Reimbursement requests are to be submitted by June 30, 2004.

If you have any questions or need any assistance, must contact your dealer or the appropriate Customer Assistance Center at the number listed below:

Division
Number
Deaf, Hearing Impaired, or Speech Impaired*

Chevrolet
1-800-222-1020
1-800-833-2438

GMC
1-800-462-8782
1-800-462-8583

Oldsmobile
1-800-442-6537
1-800-833-6537

Puerto Rico - English
1-800-496-9992


Puerto Rico - Español
1-800-496-9993


Virgin Islands
1-800-496-9994


* Utilizes Telecommunication Devices for the Deaf/Text Telephones (TDD/TTY)


We are sorry for any inconvenience you may experience; however we have taken this action in the interest of your continued satisfaction with our products.

General Motors Corporation




GENERAL MOTORS SPECIAL POLICY CUSTOMER REIMBURSEMENT PROCEDURE
If you have paid to have this special policy condition corrected before June 27, 2003, you may be eligible to receive reimbursement.

Requests for reimbursement may include parts, labor, fees and taxes. Reimbursement may be limited to the amount the repair would have cost if completed by an authorized General Motors dealer.

Your claim will be acted upon within 60 days of receipt.

If your claim is:

Approved, you will receive a check from General Motors.
Denied, you will receive a letter from General Motors with the reason(s) for the denial, or
Incomplete, you will receive a letter from General Motors identifying the documentation that is needed to complete the claim and offered the opportunity to resubmit the claim when the missing documentation is available.
Please follow the instructions on the Claim Form provided on the reverse side to file a claim for reimbursement. If you have questions about this reimbursement procedure, please call the toll-free telephone number provided at the bottom of the form. If you need assistance with any other concern, please contact the GMC Customer Assistance Center at 1-866-996-9463. The deaf, hearing impaired, or speech impaired should call 1-800-462-8583 (Utilizes Telecommunication Devices for the Deaf/Text Telephones, TDD/TTY).

GENERAL MOTORS SPECIAL POLICY CUSTOMER REIMBURSEMENT CLAIM FORM
THIS SECTION TO BE COMPLETED BY CLAIMANT

Date Claim Submitted:



Vehicle Identification Number (VIN):



Mileage at Time of Repair:



Date of Repair:



Claimant Name (please print):



Street Address or PO Box Number:



City, State, ZIP Code:



Daytime Telephone Number (include Area Code):



Evening Telephone Number (include Area Code):



Amount of Reimbursement Requested: $





THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION MUST ACCOMPANY THIS CLAIM FORM

Original or clear copy of all receipts, invoices and/or repair orders that show:

The name and address of the person who paid for the repair.
The Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) of the vehicle that was repaired.
What problem occurred, what repair was done, when it was done and who did it.
The total cost of the repair expense that is being claimed.
Payment for the repair in question and the date of payment. (copy of front and back of cancelled check, or copy or credit card receipt.)
My signature to this document attests that all attached documents are genuine and I request reimbursement for the expense I incurred for the repair covered by this special policy.

Claimant's Signature:




Please mail this claim form and the required documents to:


General Motors Corporation

P.O. Box 33170

Detroit, MI 48232-5170

All recall reimbursement questions should be directed to the following number: 1-800-204-0261.





GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION


© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Deuce
07-03-2005, 12:39 AM
ZR WON,

Thanks for the info on the liner cracking. I have been looking for a low km 02-03 TB LTZ or Envoy SLT and have come across an 02 LTZ that I am/was intersted in. Supposedly it has had some bottom end engine work done on it, still waiting for the actual papers to verify what was done. Sounds like it had the piston slap and was fixed.

I guess what I'm questioning is the reliability of the rebuild. Is the piston slap going to occur again, or is the rebuild a guaranteed fix? All speculation of course.

I noticed the parts list states QTY: 1 Engine, Goodwrench Service Replacement. Followed by instructions to install new service engine. Are they doing a short block replacment?

I checked the VIN number and it fits right into the affected number and the in-service date was August 20, 2001. So it was one of the first produced. I'm beginning to think that I will move on and leave this LTZ alone.


Any other advice or information?

deathbynosleep
07-03-2005, 12:45 AM
ZR WON,

Thanks for the info on the liner cracking. I have been looking for a low km 02-03 TB LTZ or Envoy SLT and have come across an 02 LTZ that I am/was intersted in. Supposedly it has had some bottom end engine work done on it, still waiting for the actual papers to verify what was done. Sounds like it had the piston slap and was fixed.

I guess what I'm questioning is the reliability of the rebuild. Is the piston slap going to occur again, or is the rebuild a guaranteed fix? All speculation of course.

I noticed the parts list states QTY: 1 Engine, Goodwrench Service Replacement. Followed by instructions to install new service engine. Are they doing a short block replacment?

I checked the VIN number and it fits right into the affected number and the in-service date was August 20, 2001. So it was one of the first produced. I'm beginning to think that I will move on and leave this LTZ alone.


Any other advice or information?

If it were me i would try to find one from a different year. If you do decide on that truck make sure it has a warranty(maybe buy an extended one also).

ParadoxJr
07-14-2005, 03:37 PM
Well I had to leave my Tb at the dealer lastnight (scary), and this morning when I went in I had the serive manager listen to the knocking, and he ACTUALLY heard it... WOO HOO!!!!

He said there is definately piston noise, and also possible some with the exhaust manifold gasget... The GM DSM will be in next week to have a look at it, and to tell me what they will be doing with it...

I will keep everyone updated...

Russ

ParadoxJr
08-10-2005, 02:17 PM
Well the District Manger is finally out, and my TB is just sitting there waiting for him to arrive.. Now I hope that he hears the same Knock that Myself and the Service Manager heard...

I will keep you posted, as to what the actaul problem is...

Russ

05trailblazer1
11-04-2005, 11:20 PM
Hello, Is anyone experiencing the engine tapping/light knock (lifters tapping)when you first startup in the mornings. This noise last any where from 5 to 10 mins. I usually allow vehicle to warmup a few minutes and then start driving and this tapping as you drive off continues and almost has the sound of a faint diesel sound. once car is totally hot you don't here it the rest of the day. Took car in to dealer and they claim its normal. Oh, forgot to mention this is a I-6

dach95
11-04-2005, 11:29 PM
I would try a higher grade gas and siee if it happens.

OurZoo
11-05-2005, 12:13 AM
What he said. Higher octane or simply better gas.

zamar
11-05-2005, 12:56 AM
My '02 does that exact thing. My neighbor, a chevy dealer mechanic, said to put synthetic oil in it. I put regular oil with Lucas stabilizer and it still does it. The '02 engines are known to knock a bit. In looking at the dealer printout, my TB has had at least one cylinder sleaved or replaced. There is a little known 100k mile warranty on mine I think. I hope if it grenades it does it soon. :x

DouglasEsh
11-05-2005, 03:17 AM
Mine does the same thing. The higher octane does nothing to stop it as it's not engine knock. I've just switched over to full synthetic oil last week but I haven't been trying to listen for it. I'm about to head out I'll see if it's still tapping.

ScarabEpic22
11-05-2005, 03:30 AM
My 02 seems to luck out every time. :D I havent had any problems except for a rotten egg smell that I think is the catalytic converter?

But, I agree with zamar, if or when my engine decides to go, that it does it before 100k or 2009 when the 7yr 100k engine warrenty is up. The sleeve cracking is a common problem, and I have never had any issues. I havent even had a knock ever, and I drive it pretty hard once I get up my initial hill and the engine warms up.

wmomran
11-05-2005, 03:45 AM
my 05 do that from day 1. exactly the same thing you said. you can listen to it clearly under the passenger wheel well.

on other fourms, ppl say that it will fade out after 6~10 k miles of engine life :confused:

foxtonsagent
11-05-2005, 09:06 AM
My '02 does the same thing too. I also have regular oil through it. I'll try synthetic next time. Hope that helps.

DouglasEsh
11-05-2005, 10:27 AM
Ok, I checked when I started it up and I couldn't hear the tap. I think the synthetic did the trick. Don't know if it's a problem or just an annoyance. I'll keep listening for it just in case this was a one time fluke.

tblazed
11-05-2005, 10:56 AM
The 4.2s do sound different when first started up cold compared to hot. The octane of gasoline will have zero effect on cold engine mechanical sounds. The quality of the gas could have an effect over the long term if there isn't enough detergent additive in the gas to keep a valve or two from sticking when it first starts up, but it would idle super rough as well as making a tapping noise if that was going on. Cold viscosity or weight of the oil can make a difference though. I doubt going to a synthetic would make any difference unless the viscosity of the new oil is different. Synthetics are excellent for not breaking down in high heat. (I think back and wish the synth stuff had been around when I had my turbocharged '65 Corvair Corsa... would have saved a couple of turbo rebuilds... but I digress... ) I use regular ol' Quaker State 10W-30 in my '02 TB since it never gets below 0°F around these parts. Going from a 5W- to a 10W on the cold end of the oil spec helped mine with the initial cold startup engine noise. After everything gets hot in about 3-5 min and expands, it's super quiet, no noises at all.

BTW DouglasEsh- over on bobistheoilguy, German Castrol synthetic appears to be the ultimate "holy grail" of oils.

wmomran
11-05-2005, 12:59 PM
i don't think oil viscosity have anything to do with it. i'm using 20w50 on my tb (don't ask way, this is the recommaned oil for my region according to GM).

tblazed
11-05-2005, 02:20 PM
i don't think oil viscosity have anything to do with it. i'm using 20w50 on my tb (don't ask way, this is the recommaned oil for my region according to GM).

It did on mine. The slightly heavier viscosity when cold seems to cushion the piston noise against the bore of the cylinder better, reducing the "diesel" type noise I was hearing. It's still there but reduced. Goes away completely when everying heats up and expands. GM supposedly adressed the problem I described with a polymer graphite coating on the piston skirts starting after mine was built unfortunately.

I would be concerned using 20W-50 that you are at the least slowing down the resonse time of the exhaust cam phase actuator mechanism, since it's function relies on proper oil viscosity as per the service manual. Quote from GM SI:

"Engine oil has a major impact upon the camshaft actuation system's responsiveness. Oil temperature, viscosity, and quality can slow and/or inhibit the phaser's ability to reach a desired phase angle."

Plus, the tolerances in these engines are so tight they really don't benefit from a 50W oil. Mine uses no oil at all between twice-year changes.

IceN
11-05-2005, 09:59 PM
i hear the same damn thing, and frankly its embarassing when other people are in ur car. Its supposedly some kinda cam phaser sensor thats come loose or somehting to that effect, and to fix it wouldnt be economical and it doesnt hurt anything. Thats what i get told everytime, and get the same bs answer is that its normal.

chasmanz28
11-05-2005, 10:19 PM
My 02 seems to luck out every time. :D I havent had any problems except for a rotten egg smell that I think is the catalytic converter?

But, I agree with zamar, if or when my engine decides to go, that it does it before 100k or 2009 when the 7yr 100k engine warrenty is up. The sleeve cracking is a common problem, and I have never had any issues. I havent even had a knock ever, and I drive it pretty hard once I get up my initial hill and the engine warms up.That rotten egg smell is that normal? The reason why i ask, i had my 05 TB in the garage and noticed the egg smell when it sat idle for a few secs

ScarabEpic22
11-06-2005, 02:51 AM
That rotten egg smell is that normal? The reason why i ask, i had my 05 TB in the garage and noticed the egg smell when it sat idle for a few secs
Dont think so, but the dealer said that since it wasnt throwing any codes or a SES light, they blew me off. It has been occuring since I got my 02 back in the first week of January 2002. It only does it when idling for a long time or if I dont let it warm up all the way before I stop for something and turn it off.

chasmanz28
11-06-2005, 04:30 AM
Dont think so, but the dealer said that since it wasnt throwing any codes or a SES light, they blew me off. It has been occuring since I got my 02 back in the first week of January 2002. It only does it when idling for a long time or if I dont let it warm up all the way before I stop for something and turn it off.Doesnt that smell mean the cat is blocked? Or its starting to break apart from the inside

ScarabEpic22
11-06-2005, 05:19 AM
Doesnt that smell mean the cat is blocked? Or its starting to break apart from the inside
I think it is something like that, but I havent looked at the cat before. I have only looked at my huge muffler under the passengers side that has a big dent in it and I didnt see anything. When my muffler eventually gets a hole or I get around to it, I will get an aftermarket exhaust and see if that fixes the problem. Wouldnt deal with the cat then, just the muffler.

tblazed
11-06-2005, 10:03 AM
Usually, the "rotten egg" sulfur smell exhaust results from by high temperatures in the catalytic converter caused by a too-rich condition, and excess unburned fuel going through. It's normal to get that on a rare occasion, but it shouldn't do it much.

ylab
11-06-2005, 12:29 PM
As far as the 'tapping' sound upon cold starting, which began this thread, you're most likely hearing piston slap. The 4.2L uses short skirt pistons, which while reducing mass and aiding in efficiency, can cause piston slap.....if your engine sounds a bit like a diesel for the first few moments after starting, that's what you're hearing.

Late in the '02 model year, GM changed over to polymer coated pistons to help reduce and/or eliminate the piston slap present in these engines. At one time they planned to make the revised pistons available via a TSB, however that plan apparently died very quickly. I'm actually on my 2nd engine having had the first drop a liner and the replacement block is an '03 with the revised pistons and oil pump.....*much* quieter when cold than the original engine!

TexasTB
11-06-2005, 02:52 PM
My Pontiac Grand Prix did it in the mornings, after the car had been sitting for some time......would go away in about 5 minutes after the car warmed up...
It was piston slap, which was common in the 3100 and 3400 motors......

ScarabEpic22
11-07-2005, 03:25 AM
Usually, the "rotten egg" sulfur smell exhaust results from by high temperatures in the catalytic converter caused by a too-rich condition, and excess unburned fuel going through. It's normal to get that on a rare occasion, but it shouldn't do it much.
I noticed it today after I drove really hard for about 15min and then stopped. How can I fix it because it also does it when I drive normally it is concerning to me because it has been a problem for such a long time?

tblazed
11-07-2005, 10:06 AM
Maybe try a different brand of gasoline for a while, one on the Top Tier list (see http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html ) . Some gasoline has more sulphur in it than others. It can be the gasoline's sulphur content and the characteristic of catalytic converters to store sulphur compounds at light load, lean running conditions, and release them as hydrogen suphide (rotten egg stink) during rich engine running or hard driving conditions. Mine rarely does this but on occasion it will. It should burn off fairly quickly.

bmm354
11-07-2005, 12:24 PM
Doesnt that smell mean the cat is blocked? Or its starting to break apart from the inside

As tblazed mentioned the sulphur content in gas has a lot to do with the smell.

If the cat was blocked you'd have a loss of power relative to the size of the blockage. If it was breaking up inside you'd most likely hear it, since it will make a rattling noise after awhile. The noise might be present only at idle and go away if you rev the engine, or it might be the other way around. I had the cat break apart on the Chrysler Concorde I used to have and it made a loud rattle at idle. There was no mistaking where the noise was coming from.

ScarabEpic22
11-08-2005, 07:56 PM
I usually use either Shell regular or Chevron regular gas, so I dont think that is the problem. Every once in a while, I will get Costco gas which isnt as good, but thats only when regular gets really expensive around here.

I wish my TB would throw a code so I could get the cat replaced before the emissions warrenty runs out.

my-tb
11-09-2005, 01:31 PM
I have an 04 w/ the "slap" thing and only 18k. This is not a sound that I want to worry about. So is there any damage that is being done to the engine with this happening? I have been hearing it more now that the late Michigan fall is setting in and morning temps are 35-45.

IceN
11-14-2005, 05:36 AM
a possible answer from a tech that works for gm, read post #11

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362894&highlight=trailblazer

zamar
12-05-2005, 05:43 PM
I just put in Mobil 1 5-W30 and my knocking has gone away. I guess my neighbor was right. So if anyone out there has this problem try synthetic oil.

spearenvoy
12-05-2005, 09:19 PM
I have the same tapping noise as described above. The simple solution seems to be changing to full synthetic oil. I know that GM is not thrilled about synthetic oil and they claim that it will eat up some gaskets prematurely. Is this true?
Homer

Envoy Fan
12-05-2005, 11:11 PM
I have the same tapping noise as described above. The simple solution seems to be changing to full synthetic oil. I know that GM is not thrilled about synthetic oil and they claim that it will eat up some gaskets prematurely. Is this true?
Homer

GM factory fills the TB SS with Mobil 1 synthetic. Also the Corvettes, GTO, Caddy and probably others I missed. I put Mobil 1 in our '01 Tahoe and piston slap barely noticable.

Rob
12-06-2005, 09:55 AM
I also have a 2003 Suburban that had a very slight "tick" on a cold start. The noise would last from a few seconds to a minute depending on the ambient temperature. I complained to the dealer, mostly because I knew GM would extend the warranty on the engine. The dealer diagnosed it as piston slap and GM extended the warranty on the engine to 100K miles. Once I received the warranty extension I switched to Mobil 1 fully synthetic. The switch has nearly eliminated the "tick". The reason is synthetics flow better then conventional oil when cold. Now when the temps are mild, the noise might last 2-3 seconds on a cold start - a little longer when temps are below freezing. In the end I get an extended warranty, and I don't believe there is any real damage being done to the engine.

spearenvoy
12-06-2005, 07:57 PM
Cool...Thanks for the advice. Next oil change, I will try Mobil 1 to see if the tap goes away....Homer

ghoster
12-07-2005, 03:58 AM
I have a 2004 Tb I6. Its got a little over 20,000 miles, and It has the same tapping. It only happens when its a cold morning. It does go away once I have reached normal operating temps, but this could take as long as 20 minutes on a cold morning. This sounds exactly like lifters tapping. I have used Mobil 1 since day one. I have never seen my change oil light come on, I change it between 4 and 5 thousand miles. Is this something I need to talk to the dealer about? This can't possibly normal. I just hate that I will have to leave the truck with them for a night, and hope its really cold the next morning so they can reproduce the sound.

rmzl
12-07-2005, 04:27 AM
i don't think oil viscosity have anything to do with it. i'm using 20w50 on my tb (don't ask way, this is the recommaned oil for my region according to GM).

The dealer here in Lebanon was using 5-50W ! Those dealers think that if we are in the middle east this automatically means very hot. This is plain stupid, what about Texas and Arizona ?? They recomend 5-30W there no? In Lebanon we have maybe 4-5 days in the year where the temp goes beyond 38 degrees C, and I don't know how they justify the oil weight. The engine oil runs at about 90-120 Degrees C, what the heck has the outside temp to do with it when the engine is at working temp.???!! this has to do with recommendations and clearance, tell you dealer.

I switched to 0-30W and immediately gained 3 MPGs and a quieter engine.

ylab
12-07-2005, 12:05 PM
The I6 doesn't incorporate lifters, they use a hydralic tappet and they usually don't make the same heavy tapping sound a bad lifter makes. (Sounds like you may have some piston slap, which can resemble that sound).

Next time you start cold and she's tapping, raise the hood and see if you can tell if the noise is at the very top of the engine around where the valve cover meets the head or a little below. If it is, the noise might be valve train related. If the noise is coming from farther down the engine, like below the seam of where the head and block meet, its piston slap. (From what's been said by others, the dealer will claim its normal and hopefully offer an extended warranty on the motor).

Although 2003 & later motors have polymer coated pistons to help reduce piston slap, I'm thinking it wasn't a 100% cure as they've now added squirters to the rods to put add'l oil on the cylinder walls for 2006.

jscholl411
12-07-2005, 02:40 PM
I have an 02 tb and whenever i start it, it sound like a big diesel engine for about 10 mins. I then quiets down, but when i get in and drive it slow the tapping comes back again. I have tried different gas, all types of oil and now im bringing it in to be scoped at the dealer to find out if it is the sleeves. I love the truck but hate the agravation.

ghoster
12-08-2005, 06:40 AM
Thanks Ylab.
I had heard that it didn't have lifters in the way I think of lifters. Just didn't know what to call them, and it really sounds like lifters tapping.:D I am curious though. This is only happening when its cold outside....like 40 degrees or less, and it goes away completely at operating temps. Wouldn't piston slap happen regardeless of the outside temperature until the engine gets to operating temp? Either way, I am dropping it off at the dealership on Sunday night. I am hoping they get to hear the tap on Monday morning. I hope there is something that can be done, this engine has 20,000 miles on it, and it s just not right that it should be making this noise.

ylab
12-08-2005, 03:41 PM
Piston slap isn't necessary still there and in most (not all) cases goes away completely when fully warmed up. The original engine in my Envoy had a nasty tap that stayed even when warmed up, that sounded just like a dead lifter. Dealer setup a meeting with the factory rep, who instructed them to write it up as a failing cylinder liner.

I'm now getting a odd sound out of mine when cold the past few days....we've been in the teens overnight. (Jury is still out on the cause....plan to get a good listen over the weekend).

ghoster
12-09-2005, 02:30 PM
Giving my TB to the dealership makes me nervous. I have never had good experiences with them. I am saying my prayers extra hard this weekend!:D

ghoster
12-09-2005, 03:30 PM
ok...I had time to actually open the hood and listen. The "tapping" is on the right hand side of the engine...thats if you are facing the engine from the front. I thought the sound went away when it reached operating temp. It doesn't, its a light chatter sound on this side of the engine. It wasn't there when I bought it thats for sure. One of the things I loved about this engine is how quiet it is at idle. I guess the tapping sound decreases at operating temp enough that I can't hear it sitting in the truck. It sounds like the top half of the engine, though its hard to be sure without the proper tools. Now...anything I should aske the dealership to look into? any suggestions?

tblazed
12-09-2005, 04:14 PM
'Light chatter sound"... I wonder if you are hearing the fuel injectors. They make a light ticking sound when they operate. The a/c compressor and the alternator are on the driver's side too.

ghoster
12-09-2005, 04:21 PM
'Light chatter sound"... I wonder if you are hearing the fuel injectors. They make a light ticking sound when they operate. The a/c compressor and the alternator are on the driver's side too.

It could be the injectors, but they have never been this loud. Is it just possible they need to be cleaned? and what would you recommend?

tblazed
12-09-2005, 05:53 PM
It could be the injectors, but they have never been this loud. Is it just possible they need to be cleaned? and what would you recommend?

A 20 oz bottle of Chevron Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner in one tank wouldn't hurt, or two of the smaller 12 oz bottles for a little more concentration, and begin using one of the brands of "Top Tier" gasoline if you're not already.

It could be that when it's cold, the injectors are being turned on for longer pulse duration for a richer mix til it gets warmed up and maybe they make more noise operating like that. Just a guess.

ghoster
12-09-2005, 05:58 PM
A 20 oz bottle of Chevron Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner in one tank wouldn't hurt, or two of the smaller 12 oz bottles for a little more concentration, and begin using one of the brands of "Top Tier" gasoline if you're not already.

It could be that when it's cold, the injectors are being turned on for longer pulse duration for a richer mix til it gets warmed up and maybe they make more noise operating like that. Just a guess.

That would be a relief. Its time for the fuel filter change too. Think I will do that tomorrow and see if it makes the TB happy.

chivistb
12-09-2005, 06:47 PM
A 20 oz bottle of Chevron Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner in one tank ....

How often you recommend to add one of these cleaners?

ScarabEpic22
12-09-2005, 09:59 PM
I run one about every 3-5k, depending on how I have been running my TB. It used to be easy, change the oil, throw a bottle in. But, Im running synthetic now, and change every 10k, so I should probably run it more often. I also have been staying away from Costco gas lately, as the prices have been going down on Top Tier like Shell which usually (or Chevron) what goes in the TB.

ghoster
12-10-2005, 05:29 AM
I had never heard of the top tier thing til I read it here a couple of days ago. I did everything I could for my TB maintenance wise, except gas. I just used the local cheap stuff. Usually it was a Citgo. I will start using the better stuff now.

tblazed
12-10-2005, 10:36 AM
How often you recommend to add one of these cleaners?

Haven't needed to run any since summer of 2003 when it developed an intermittent rough idle issue. Engine would miss or stumble when idling every few seconds. That straightened out with use of the Techron cleaner. During the first year and a half I owned my TB, as the rough idle gradually got worse, I had been buying whatever the cheapest gas was I could find, mostly Sam's Club gas. I could stand behind it idling, listen to the exhaust and hear a "stutter" every few seconds when the idle would stumble. After the idle smoothed out with the cleaner use, I started using Shell regular 87 gas. Shell mainly because they offered a 5% rebate card, and at the time Shell was touting their gasoline additive in advertising. About this same time in '03 was when I first heard about "Top Tier". Anyway, now, once or twice a year I will put in 4 gal of Shell V-Power and top off the rest of the tank with 87 to get a little more potent maintenance dose of Shell's deposit control additive. (Costs a whopping 80¢ more for that tankful to do that!) It idles so smoothly now after 2+ years of doing this I almost can't feel it running like when sitting at a light idling. That's when it used to stumble the worst - idling, in gear, with the a/c on.

ghoster
12-12-2005, 01:00 PM
ok...Just picked up my TB from the dealership. They said they did hear the tapping I described. They said they ran it from where it was dropped off to a bay, about 50 ft away. It never warmed up. They did a PCM reprogram as per bulletin 05-06-02-004. When they started it up again, no noise. I got into it at about 8:30 and it was cold again and I heard no sounds. The real test will be in the morning when its really cold and I start it up.

chivistb
12-12-2005, 02:10 PM
I run one about every 3-5k, depending on how I have been running my TB. It used to be easy, change the oil, throw a bottle in. But, Im running synthetic now, and change every 10k, so I should probably run it more often. I also have been staying away from Costco gas lately, as the prices have been going down on Top Tier like Shell which usually (or Chevron) what goes in the TB.

Thanks!


Haven't needed to run any since summer of 2003 when it developed an intermittent rough idle issue. Engine would miss or stumble when idling every few seconds. That straightened out with use of the Techron cleaner. During the first year and a half I owned my TB, as the rough idle gradually got worse, I had been buying whatever the cheapest gas was I could find, mostly Sam's Club gas. I could stand behind it idling, listen to the exhaust and hear a "stutter" every few seconds when the idle would stumble. After the idle smoothed out with the cleaner use, I started using Shell regular 87 gas. Shell mainly because they offered a 5% rebate card, and at the time Shell was touting their gasoline additive in advertising. About this same time in '03 was when I first heard about "Top Tier". Anyway, now, once or twice a year I will put in 4 gal of Shell V-Power and top off the rest of the tank with 87 to get a little more potent maintenance dose of Shell's deposit control additive. (Costs a whopping 80¢ more for that tankful to do that!) It idles so smoothly now after 2+ years of doing this I almost can't feel it running like when sitting at a light idling. That's when it used to stumble the worst - idling, in gear, with the a/c on.

Thanks again. I've been using Chevron or 76 straight for about 6 months now even though the prices are not best but I mainly do it because of the Top Tier thing and also because I've noticed a fairly increase on my milage and truck runs a bit smoother than before. I will add one bottle of Chevron cleaner the next time I have to fill up my tank.

ScarabEpic22
12-13-2005, 05:09 PM
My TB might be going into the dealership over X-mas break, just so I can get all of the new programming done in 1 pass, hopefully it will cure my 4WD issue and some other very minor things, including that annoying tapping on startup.

thor
01-14-2006, 10:04 AM
i have a 2002 trailblazer ''LT'' "EXT", when i first start the truck up after it's sat for a while, i hear a ticking noise, only for a few minutes then it goes away,and you don't hear it anymore, until truck has sat for a while
anyone have this problem?

ieatglue
01-14-2006, 11:07 AM
Is it a ticking noise or more of a squeeking noise?

Envoy Fan
01-14-2006, 12:53 PM
Piston slap

DjTeck
01-14-2006, 05:55 PM
I dunno how the engines are set up timing wise on the I6 do they use a timing belt or a chain??? It could be a lifter/ lifters or if they have a timing chain set-up could be in the timing possibly. Is the noise heard more on the top of the engine or is it down lower?

thor
01-15-2006, 09:02 AM
i'm thinking maybe a lifter, or clutch fan,noise goes away in a few minutes

zamar
01-15-2006, 10:01 AM
If it is more of a ticking than a knocking yours could be exhaust manifold leak. Is it louder on the passenger side?

Matt_Lewis
01-16-2006, 08:56 AM
I get that same noise...I'm not sure what it is though. It almost sounds like something electric, like when you touch the two leads together off of a battery. And mine isn't a constant noise it is sporatic and I have only heard it once. Does yours sounds like this is the same thing?
Thanks
Matt

tblazed
01-16-2006, 10:02 AM
Could be the fan clutch. This was explained to me by an engineer that works for Behr, the manufacturer of the fan clutch.

The original design fan clutch can make a cycling click or tick noise repeating once or twice a second when it's cold for a few minutes until things warm up. The clicking is the solenoid in the clutch being actuated by the PCM that controls how much the clutch is engaged. The new design clutch that came out in June-July 2005 with the higher minimum speed for poor AC cooling issues supposedly doesn't make this noise.

HOTRODSURFER
01-16-2006, 10:16 AM
check with you dealer the is a program update for clutch fan noise ill try and find tsb # and forward to you

HOTRODSURFER
01-16-2006, 11:25 AM
ther is a bulletin(tsb ) pip3664 pertaining to engine ticking noise from clutch fan,sounds like what you are describing

my-tb
01-16-2006, 03:13 PM
I also have a tick in my motor when it is cold. I think it is the piston slap but didnt they redo the pistons for 04? So shoulnd I then not have any problems with that? Just trying to figure out what is the deal with the TB.

HOTRODSURFER
01-16-2006, 03:40 PM
possible clutch fan noise have seen a buch come through my dealer
with clicking noise fron engine and found program update for clutch fan fixes
problem-very little problem with the 4.2 engine!!!! check with dealer about program update

thor
01-16-2006, 04:05 PM
i'll have to check it out, i don't think it's piston slap, or the cylinder sleeves, because it goes away, it's only when the engine has sat awhile, and it's only for the first few minutes, until truck warms up,then it goes away, and you don't hear it again until truck has cooled down

ghoster
01-16-2006, 05:23 PM
There is another thread all about this topic. I had the same problem. Took it to the dealership, and they said they reprogrammed it. It doesn't do it anymore. I noticed that now the RPM's are higher at start up. Its like instead of fixing the problem, they made the truck warm up faster so I won't notice the noise.

anyway, this is the other thread (http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=2365&highlight=engine+tapping).

thor
01-16-2006, 11:26 PM
did the tell you what that noise was?

ghoster
01-16-2006, 11:36 PM
nope. They really didn't look either. The first step was to check the sevice bulletins. One of the bulletins is about engine tapping noise. They did the reprogramming that the bulletin specified and that was it. Of course by this time they had warmed up the TB so they wouldn't have heard the noise anymore anyway. I haven't heard the noise since, so I am guessing that they wouldn't do anything else for it.

What this comes down to for me is, I don't think they fixed it. I think they found a way for me not to hear it anymore by increasing the idle through the warm up phase. I, of course, can't prove this though.

drdoug
02-21-2006, 08:46 PM
I've started to notice a faint knock occasionally in my 02 LTZ 4.2. The frustrating thing is that it while it seems to come and go, it isn't exhibiting the behavior I normally associate with a bad lifter. There are times at idle that it is dead silent with no noise whatsoever, yet other times that it is quite audible. Cold or warm doesn't seem to make any difference, nor does load. It is almost always present and I can hear it very faintly from inside, though it's most obvious when listening from the passenger side away from the noise of the injectors.

I took it to the dealer and asked some advice as I'm on my extended warranty and have to pay for all diagnostics until they decide it is a covered repair. The person who listened to it thought it may be some carbon build up. I have run seafoam through the intake fairly recently, but decided to again. I also put some engine flush in and switched Chevron dino oil to 5W30 Mobil 1 full synthetic. There may be a little change, but it's definately still there. He said the next step beyond that diagnosis it to pay to have it torn down. I don't have the $$$ at the moment to pay for the teardown and rebuild if they find something that isn't warranty covered.

The vehicle has 94K mostly freeway miles on it with religious oil changes when the DIC showed 50% or appx 5K miles.

Any thoughts?

zamar
02-21-2006, 08:55 PM
Mine does the same thing. There is a manufacturers campaign letter on this.

I hope to make them listen to mine soon. 89K miles.

Campaign - Cylinder Bore Liner Cracking

File In Section: 06-Engine
Bulletin No.: 03019
Date: June, 2003
SPECIAL POLICY
SUBJECT:
03019 - SPECIAL POLICY ADJUSTMENT - 4.2L (LL8) BORE LINER CRACKING

MODELS:
CERTAIN 2002 CHEVROLET TRAILBLAZER; GMC ENVOY; AND OLDSMOBILE BRAVADA

CONDITION
Some customers of 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada with 4.2L (LLS) L6 engine produced during the 2001 calendar year may experience cracking of an engine cylinder bore liner, resulting in engine noise, poor performance, and/or stalls with no engine restart. Engine replacement is necessary to correct this failure.
SPECIAL POLICY ADJUSTMENT
This special policy covers the condition described above for a period of seven (7) years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.
For vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after June 13, 2003 are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to June 13, 2003 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.
VEHICLES INVOLVED
http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AFI~V6216873~C36023~R0~OB0~P4R0H~N/0/86372027/86372028/86372061/86372064/34853741/34850750/42103745/56955529/101827346/101386263/101403369
Involved are certain 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada model vehicles equipped with 4.2L (RPO LL8) L6 engine and built within the VIN breakpoints shown.
PARTS INFORMATION
http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AFI~V6216873~C36023~R0~OB0~P4R0H~N/0/86372027/86372028/86372061/86372064/34853741/34850750/42103745/56955529/101827346/101386263/101403371
Parts required to complete this special policy are to be obtained from General Motors Service Parts Operations (GMSPO).
CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION
Customers will be notified of this special policy on their vehicles by General Motors (see copy of typical customer letter included with this bulletin - actual divisional letter may vary slightly).
SERVICE PROCEDURE
IMPORTANT :U.S. and Canada Dealers refer to GM Service Bulletin 02-07-30-029A. This bulletin reference is for the Powertrain Quality Center (PQC). Prior approval for engine assembly replacement applies to this Special Policy.

IMPORTANT :The labor time allowance listed in this recall is different than that currently published in the labor time guide for performing the same operation. In the near future, the labor time guide will be updated with this new information.

Install a new service engine using the procedure outlined in the appropriate Service Manual.
IMPORTANT :Refer to GM Service Information Bulletin 02-06-01-031 for 4.2L Goodwrench engine service.

CLAIM INFORMATION

drdoug
02-21-2006, 09:49 PM
I did receive that letter from GM, but I was under the (possibly wrong) impression that the failure was rather dramatic and was most likely to occur within the first few thousand miles.

Ddubb
02-22-2006, 12:16 AM
I did receive that letter from GM, but I was under the (possibly wrong) impression that the failure was rather dramatic and was most likely to occur within the first few thousand miles.

If you had a cylinder bore cracked you would probably have very poor performance from the engine. A slight knock may be an indication of Pre-ignition, what kind of gas are you using in the vehicle ? Seems a little early for a rod knock or something along those lines but I wouldnt rule it out completely until you try out some of the other possibilities.

- Dan

hammeredflat454
02-22-2006, 10:22 AM
We bought a 2004 Trailblazer.When the engine is cold it has a rattle that sounds like to me that there is no oil to the lifters.This goes on for 10 to 15 minutes till it starts warming up.The Dealer says that they all do it.I would think that this is damaging to the engine.Does anyone else experiance this? Thanks

Envoy Fan
02-22-2006, 10:51 AM
Welcome to the forum. All TB's DO NOT rattle for 10 or 15 minutes before quieting down. Did you buy this TB new, or just get it used recently? If used, did you buy from a GM dealer or other?
10 to 15 minutes is NOT NORMAL. Get this checked out.

IceN
02-22-2006, 10:53 AM
Welcome to the forum. All TB's DO NOT rattle for 10 or 15 minutes before quieting down. Did you buy this TB new, or just get it used recently? If used, did you buy from a GM dealer or other?
10 to 15 minutes is NOT NORMAL. Get this checked out.
mines does the same thing

03slt_soccal
02-22-2006, 11:00 AM
mine does it also with regular oil and mobil one. i have 80k miles with no problems (no leaks no loss of power). i just let it warm alittle and then take it easy for the first 10to15 min. :)

tblazed
02-22-2006, 11:04 AM
Mine sounds different when cold. I and others have described the engine noise as sounding a little like a Diesel when cold, but that only lasts 3-4 min until the temp gage starts getting up near the normal range.

nathnn99
02-22-2006, 11:12 AM
I have never had any sort of rattle at startup, nor have either of my friends who own TBs. This sort of thing would worry me. It once oil hits the valves and starts cushioning them (this should take about 30 seconds to 1 minute) any initial rattle should stop. Don't let the dealer take you for a ride. This rattle is an indication of a problem. Typically (but not ulways): worn valves or valve seats.

MoJoe
02-22-2006, 11:27 AM
All,

Since there were multiple threads regarding piston slap/engine tapping, we decided to merge them into one and make a sticky for quick reference.:thumbsup:


Thank you.
TrailVoy Staff

tblazed
02-22-2006, 11:49 AM
I have never had any sort of rattle at startup, nor have either of my friends who own TBs. This sort of thing would worry me. It once oil hits the valves and starts cushioning them

Has nothing to do with the oil hitting the valves to cushion them - in that case you'd have a lot of oil burning and smoke! It's the cold engine block and pistons that expand as it warms up, and the noise fades away. On mine anyway, no knock or tick, just a little noisier at first til it gets about half warmed up which doesn't take long.

dntnvme
02-22-2006, 12:43 PM
I have to agree a bit, but after I change to synthetic oil the problem is no more. When I first purchased my 02 it did that, so when I got my 05 I said I was going to do something different. I instantly went to synthetic and have not had the problem. My guess is, regular oil is thicker and takes a while to raise to the proper level of operation. But with synthetic it's a much better grade and easier to flow. Just my 2 cents, but I would get it checked out quickly.

Oil pump might be losing pressure, causing it to take longer for the oil the reach proper operation. This is also a guess, this happen to my Monte Carlo SS with the 350 big block.

tblazed
02-22-2006, 01:00 PM
When I first purchased my 02 it did that, so when I got my 05 I said I was going to do something different.

Oil pump might be losing pressure,


From 2003 model year on, the pistons got a polymer-graphite coating on the skirts to help with the noise. In 2006 they added oil squirter holes in the rods to put more oil on the cylinder walls for more noise reduction, so it has been a work in progress.

"Piston rod oil squirters- For improved durability and quietness the piston rod is now drilled with a tiny (less than 1/8th mm) hole, which allows oil to be sprayed on the cylinder wall, providing a cushioning layer on the sides of the piston which rides on the film of oil."


Oil pressure on mine is fine - right up there at 55-60 psi at anything above idle. At idle speed and hot, in gear, with the AC on, it runs at 40 psi. No problem there.

ltz03
02-22-2006, 01:34 PM
I have a knocking noise on the passanger side of the motor, it has got mobil 1 since day one and just now I am getting this problem. the first trip to the dealer they could not hear it, go figure.. but after I had gone to another dealer and had a tech on it all day he heard the noise.. that cost me some money, but just wanted to make sure i was not crazy, But the warranty was thru my dealer(it was free as long as I had it serviced there) which I was going to do anyways. so I got the tb back to my dealer which it spent most of the day there and they found the noise and they said it was not loud enough to tear the motor apart to find it, so I have to wait untill it get's worse.. great I'll be driving down the road and it will leave me stranded FNAS**HOLE'S, but they will fix it when it does, I hope i get a new motor It just a little aggraviting to hear your motor sound like this especially when I've got the 22's on there.......

trailblazer02
02-22-2006, 10:11 PM
My 2002 TB is not within the VIN Breakpoint, but it still sounds horrible the first 5 minutes of driving. Is it possible that the cylinder wall problem could still be an issue? The VIN is pretty close to the last breakpoint number. It is 22463254 and the last breakpoint number is 22358861. Will it still be covered under the warranty if that is the case?:confused:

ghoster
02-23-2006, 12:32 AM
Ok....mine was fixed, now its started doing it again. Still sounds like lifters tapping (yes I know there are no lifters in the conventional sense), But damn it something is tapping!!! Do we have a chevy expert on here that could maybe explain this to me??? It makes me nervous. I don't notice any power loss, no burning oil, no synptom but the tapping. As soon as its at operating temp it goes away. Its just annoying and I want it fixed! Obviously MY dealership isn't going to look hard, so is there anyone on here that is in a position to maybe tell me what to suggest they look at??? PLEASE???

wmomran
02-23-2006, 02:39 AM
Ok....mine was fixed, now its started doing it again. Still sounds like lifters tapping (yes I know there are no lifters in the conventional sense), But damn it something is tapping!!! Do we have a chevy expert on here that could maybe explain this to me??? It makes me nervous. I don't notice any power loss, no burning oil, no synptom but the tapping. As soon as its at operating temp it goes away. Its just annoying and I want it fixed! Obviously MY dealership isn't going to look hard, so is there anyone on here that is in a position to maybe tell me what to suggest they look at??? PLEASE???

I got this behavior since day 1, and learned to live with it. Dealer here in Bahrain was instructed by GM to use 20w50 with all TBs (harsh climate), so thicker oil does not help.

thor
02-23-2006, 06:17 AM
my 02 has a ticking, when the engine is cool, i have seen some threads about the clutch fan solinod, making that noise, truck runs fine,only makes noise when engine is cold, and only until it warms up

Rob
02-23-2006, 01:29 PM
I have an 03 I6 with 35K on it. I can't say I have any specific "ticking" sounds, but the engine is overall a little noisy when cold. Once at operating temp, maybe 5 minutes, it's smooth and quite as can be. I also use Mobil 1.

ScarabEpic22
02-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Mine sounds different when cold. I and others have described the engine noise as sounding a little like a Diesel when cold, but that only lasts 3-4 min until the temp gage starts getting up near the normal range.
Same here. If I RS the TB and let it warm up for a few min and then go outside to it, no noise. On the other hand, if it has been sitting overnight and I start it with the key, it ticks for a few min. (No, not fan clutch)

markhart1
02-24-2006, 06:51 PM
My I-6 is also noisier at start-up and warm up. I've been told this is somewhat due to the engine block being aluminum.
I'll live with this as I think this is one of the smoothest, strongest, and (so far!) the most reliable engine I've ever had.

HellHawk
02-26-2006, 12:17 AM
Okay, for those of you that have the "diesel" sound in the morning and after it your TV warms up it's gone, that is "piston slap". The pistons in almost all NA GM vehicles are of a hypereutectic construction. They are made for long life, limited scuffing and light duty (read NOT preformance). They are a relatively light piston. Because of their construction and metal properties, they do "shrink" when cold and they do "expand" when warm. They shortness of the piston skirts (especially the non coated skirts) tend to exacerbate the "rocking" of the piston (piston slap) when cold. This is for the most part normal. If you let your vehicle warm up properly and do NOT race the vehicle or load it greatly when cold, your engine can and more likely than not last for well over 150,xxx miles (ours already has 118,xxx and does not lose any oil).

MichEnvoyBoy
03-28-2006, 09:09 PM
FWIW, my 2002 Envoy SLT sounds WORSE than a diesel when cold (Michigan here).

I already use fully synthetic 5w-30w. I brought it into a dealer last winter and requested they look into the bore liner TSB, as my Envoy is directly smack in the middle of the VIN #'s affected. They had "no idea" what I was talking about!

I had to call corporate, put the dealer tech on 3-way calling, and have it explained to them. GMC Corporate faxed over the sheets on the TSB regarding the bore liner cracking.

The Dealer agreed I was affected but at that time, my bore liners were ok. How they knew this, I dont know, but Im pretty sure they didnt use a boroscope.

That was at 65k miles. Now at 83k miles, my Envoy sounds like a diesel for the first 10-15 minutes or until it hits 200F on the temp gauge. And in the winter (15F-25F) that takes a while!

I just live with it. Its embarrassing to drive away from my house with my 4.2 I6 sounding like my brothers I6 Cummins Turbo Diesel.
Oh well. I dont burn any oil, my valve train is pretty quiet, and with all the others- I guess I can live with excessive piston slap noise :duh:

Stewy33
04-14-2006, 12:39 PM
Well, some of the '02's had a bad cylinder sleeve. Have you had your TB checked for this problem? What is the vin or serial # and someone here can check and see if your vehicle falls within the problem range.
Had the same problem on my 02 envoy and it was the cylinder sleeve.

paul2005TB
04-29-2006, 09:12 PM
If you let your vehicle warm up properly and do NOT race the vehicle or load it greatly when cold, your engine can and more likely than not last for well over 150,xxx miles (ours already has 118,xxx and does not lose any oil).


you mean to tell me I paid over 24kUSD for a vehicle that is not going to give me 200k miles ???? .. ouch..

Bob
05-04-2006, 12:24 AM
Thanks for your hard work this is very very helpful. I am due to take my TB 2002 to the shop on Friday.

Thanks again. I will let you know.


:D General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.[/quote]

HellHawk
05-08-2006, 08:05 PM
you mean to tell me I paid over 24kUSD for a vehicle that is not going to give me 200k miles ???? .. ouch..

Nope, I didn't say that. If you take care of any vehicle it can go for over 200, 300, 400k... But an engine IS designed to systematically destroy itself after a while.. Otherwise there would be no need for new vehicles and the world economy might go into a deeper depression than that of the Great Depression (what was so f'n great about it?!?!?!). :D Anyway, think about those poor Ferrari owners who's cars will NEVER see 200k.. And how much did they pay for thier cars? ;)

403trail
05-26-2006, 01:54 AM
Bought an 02 Trailblazer today exrtemly happy and found out that GM is replacing the engine which is awesome... so for 17 Grand CDN i basically get a new SUV

Shamrok
06-05-2006, 10:21 AM
I've had the "diesel" noise from nearly day 1. I took it to the dealership a few times and like many others, they told me it was normal. I seen this thread on here and it began to make me wonder. I decided to check my spark plugs last night and I came to discover that there was engine oil on the threads of some of the plugs. I don't think it's good and it leads me to believe I have a cylinder sleeve that is busted (or something to that extent). Has anyone checked into this?

I plan to go to the dealer and ask them to look into my problem. I would hate for the engine to go bad after the warranty expires. Any one have any pointers?

RamAir1
06-07-2006, 12:07 PM
I'm gonna try to keep this short and sweet. I too have been a vicitim of the diesel 4.2 disease.
Bought my wife an 02TBLT about 17 months ago with roughly 30,000miles. Shortly after buying we heard the "tapping" all the time, not just at warm up. Took it in to the dealership to hear them say, "it's normal." Soon thereafter we had a spark plug go bad....dealer fixed it. Then another one went bad within 2 weeks....dealer fixed that one, but continued to say, "it's just a fluke." When the third plug went bad I dropped the truck off and told them don't call me till you know WTF is going on. Keep in mind this is all within a month of buying the truck. Well, they called back a couple days later and told me about the scored piston sleeve. About 2 months later we picked the truck up with a brand new engine. Great....right?
Not so fast...the noise is back. Tapping like a mofo ALL the time. ALWAYS used Mobil 1 synthetic and take exceptional care of all my cars. The truck is back at the dealership yet again and now I'm just waiting to hear from them. Damn good thing for that 7 yr/100,000 mile warranty onthe motor... we just hit 61,500 miles. Our GMPP expired at 60,000. I'm giving serious thought to telling them to keep the truck and sell me an Equinox LT AWD...
Figures I just put Powerslots on and 17" LTZ wheels and mirror signals and a remote starter, etc, etc...

ylab
06-07-2006, 12:15 PM
Mine began sounding like it had a collapsed lifter shortly after the first oil change when new.....dealer performed, btw. A year later, the factory rep listened and told them to write it up as a failed cylinder liner. They will sometimes slide just enough to make noise and not fail completely, its not common but does happen. The replacement engine has been a dream once it broke-in......absolutely no guts for the first hundred miles or so, but then came in strong and quiet.

Now if its a diesel sound that goes away once warmed up, its piston slap and considered normal for a short-skirt motor.

MTPockets
06-07-2006, 01:01 PM
..I came to discover that there was engine oil on the threads of some of the plugs. I don't think it's good and it leads me to believe I have a cylinder sleeve that is busted..

It's kind of an annoyance, but some oil down in the spark plug wells is super common on this kind of engine design. I've seen it in many differerent make/model OHC engines with the plugs recessed way down in the cylinder head(s). Each plug tower has a seal that seals the valve cover off from the cylinder head. Most are just an O-ring, but the vortec 4.2L has kind of egg shaped wells. RTV is probably used on our 4.2's.

G/luck
Joel

ScarabEpic22
06-07-2006, 05:09 PM
I used to get the tapping until I switched to Amsoil synthetic oil. It now only happens on really cold mornings for the first few minutes and then goes away.

I really hope my engine sleeve drops here in the next 30K so I can get a free new engine courtesy of General Motors!:D

svt this
06-07-2006, 05:29 PM
ok so i have the same problem that you guys are talking about(or i should say my wife has it) is gm doing anything about this?i have long been out of the factory warranty with 55k miles. but just wondering if anybody got this fixed with out any warranty?

RamAir1
06-09-2006, 12:34 PM
Never got aq chance to post back here after picking up the truck...we lucked out. Somehow a spark plug had backed itself out a little. I have no idea how that happens, but the noise is gone and the truck is running better. :)

ScarabEpic22
06-09-2006, 02:49 PM
Never got aq chance to post back here after picking up the truck...we lucked out. Somehow a spark plug had backed itself out a little. I have no idea how that happens, but the noise is gone and the truck is running better. :)
Glad to hear it was only a minor issue and that its working right now!:D

smithjc
06-28-2006, 08:49 PM
so, the deal with these pison sleeves, since GM knows about them, have they done a recall yet? Or, is this something that is not much of a problem for them. If they new that all these vehicles out there had this same problem, its obviously a mess up on their part right? So wouldnt they be obligated to fix the affected vehicles regardless of active warranties or not? My 02 envoy does this same thing. My father is a mechanic. Said he doesnt have faith in that motor just by the way it sounds. I had a 97 intrepid about a year ago that through a rod. He said that he'll bet that this motor is going to do the same thing. Has it happened to any of you yet. If so, how much is a crate motor?

tblazed
06-28-2006, 09:45 PM
ok so i have the same problem that you guys are talking about(or i should say my wife has it) is gm doing anything about this?i have long been out of the factory warranty with 55k miles. but just wondering if anybody got this fixed with out any warranty?

(EDIT just realized this is an old thread and the following has already been posted a couple of times..)

Here's the text of the bulletin sent out to dealers in 2003. Basically if the engine fails due to a sleeve, within 7 years or 100,000 mi and it was built in calander year 2001, you are covered.

DATE: JUNE 6, 2003
SUBJECT: 03019 - SPECIAL POLICY ADJUSTMENT - 4.2L (LL8) BORE LINER
CRACKING SPECIAL POLICY BULLETIN #03019 – JUNE 6, 2003
DESCRIPTION:
• Some customers of 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada with 4.2L (LL8) L6 engine produced during the 2001 calendar year may experience cracking of an engine cylinder bore liner, resulting in engine noise, poor performance, and/or stalls with no engine re-start. Engine replacement is necessary to correct this failure.
• This special policy covers the condition described above for a period of seven (7) years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.
• For vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after June 13, 2003 are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to June 13, 2003 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.
• Refer to the Special Policy Service Bulletin for further information.
EFFECTIVE DATE:
Initial owner mailing is scheduled to begin: June 13, 2003.

GENERAL INFORMATION:

Part Number Description Quantity/Vehicle
88984108 Engine, Goodwrench Service Replacement 1
12569542 Gasket Kit, Intake Manifold 1
88890561 Gasket Kit, Exhaust Manifold 1
24100165 Gasket Kit, Throttle Body 1
Sealant, RTV As Required

nfstunna
07-14-2006, 07:37 PM
My o2 bravada had a ticking sound that started around the start of the hotter temp . the dealer told me that its just a gm thing

kamkow
07-20-2006, 12:22 AM
Well, some of the '02's had a bad cylinder sleeve. Have you had your TB checked for this problem? What is the vin or serial # and someone here can check and see if your vehicle falls within the problem range.

I have a 2002 gmc envoy sle model vin #1GKDT13S222502970 AND MY ENGINE is tapping/knocking pretty bad i use good gas and had a full tune up done recently. please help me out my email is kmailkow@yahoo.com
Thanks Kamil

markeddy
08-02-2006, 11:15 AM
My wife and I bought our Trailblazer in October of 2002, the VIN reads 3 for the 10th digit indicating it's a 2003 model year obviously because we bought it when the 2003 models were being released in late 2002. For the most part it has had 72,000 trouble free miles but the other day while my wife was leaving to go home from work she experience down to the "T" so to speak the EXACT same symptoms as described in the 3rd or 4th post about what happens. She got some check engine codes about oil being too low also along with it.

It's at the dealership right now and they are saying the oil is very dark and FULL of metal in it. Sounds like a sleeve issue to me. I gave them the Special Policy Adjustment bulletin information in hopes this helps experdite the diagnosis. They are basically going to have to tear the engine down anyway. It's a good thing we extended the warranty out to 100,000 miles anyway.

I hope GM is responsible on this and covers it if it indeed turns out to be that issue even though it's a late 2002 model year build for 2003. Do you think it's possible that the engine was manufactured or from 2001 as described in the bulletin, I am kinda curious how this scenario is going to play out, because obviously the car was built in 2002.

Thanks for any help!

ScarabEpic22
08-02-2006, 01:27 PM
My wife and I bought our Trailblazer in October of 2002, the VIN reads 3 for the 10th digit indicating it's a 2003 model year obviously because we bought it when the 2003 models were being released in late 2002. For the most part it has had 72,000 trouble free miles but the other day while my wife was leaving to go home from work she experience down to the "T" so to speak the EXACT same symptoms as described in the 3rd or 4th post about what happens. She got some check engine codes about oil being too low also along with it.

It's at the dealership right now and they are saying the oil is very dark and FULL of metal in it. Sounds like a sleeve issue to me. I gave them the Special Policy Adjustment bulletin information in hopes this helps experdite the diagnosis. They are basically going to have to tear the engine down anyway. It's a good thing we extended the warranty out to 100,000 miles anyway.

I hope GM is responsible on this and covers it if it indeed turns out to be that issue even though it's a late 2002 model year build for 2003. Do you think it's possible that the engine was manufactured or from 2001 as described in the bulletin, I am kinda curious how this scenario is going to play out, because obviously the car was built in 2002.

Thanks for any help!

Welcome to the site!

I know my VIN falls in the range for the cylinder liner replacement and I have started to get some ticking back (probably due to the fact I switched back to dino oil for ~200mi so I can change it back to synthetic after flushing my engine).

I highly doubt your engine was built in 01, especially with it being a 03 model. GM changed a few things from 02 to 03 like an oil level sender and a few other things (I dont know what all they changed, but they did make changes), so I doubt you would have an 02 engine in an 03 TB.

Since you have an extended warrenty, it should only cost you the deductible (whatever its called, you know what I mean) for the whole thing. If the dealership tries to charge you, I would refuse and go straight to GM.

markeddy
08-02-2006, 01:43 PM
Thank you for the follow up reply. It's much appreciated!

My wife did check and make sure before she drove it to the dealership that the oil level on the dip stick was in the operating/full range. Oil life on the display read around 48%. I think she was 2000 miles over but that should not have any relation, she's been over before and it was never an issue.

We maintain meticulous maintenance records. The dealership said the oil level was "low", "dirty/dark" and "contained metal" in it. It just doesn't make sense to me because the TB hasn't had any issues with burning an ounce of oil since we have owned it. Something catastrophic had to have failed and it will be interesting to see what exactly failed.

In regards to the engine being a late 01' production put in our late 02', I noticed that the 2003 TSBs for the TB show several bulletins on replacing the cylinder bore liner/sleeve replacement. So it would appear that there are some issues with the 2003s also.

markeddy
08-04-2006, 05:49 PM
Update:

Dealership called, 4 spun rod bearings was the diagnosis after the engine was broken down.

Apparently they are fighting with the warranty company, the warranty company is fighting them to get it covered. Apparently they don't believe that it can happen to 4 at one time, 1 maybe but not 4. If it's mechanical, it can fail.

The fact that the oil was black with metal shavings is enough to tell me that something catastrophic was failing and causing excessive heat which burned the oil down to nothing.

My wife drives this vehicle and it's been WELL maintained, I rarely get a chance to drive it.

Anyone ever hear of this before?

MTPockets
08-04-2006, 09:08 PM
Anyone ever hear of this before?

I have heard of failed crankshaft thust bearings on the 4.2L. Once you get some slop in the thrust bearing, too much of a load gets put on the main and connecting rod bearings, causing them to go out. If the engine doesnt show drastic signs of oil starvation, I'd say the thrust bearing was the root cause.

Joel

markeddy
08-05-2006, 11:04 AM
I have heard of failed crankshaft thust bearings on the 4.2L. Once you get some slop in the thrust bearing, too much of a load gets put on the main and connecting rod bearings, causing them to go out. If the engine doesnt show drastic signs of oil starvation, I'd say the thrust bearing was the root cause.

Joel

How do you determine oil starvation when the oil was dark and had metal shavings in it from mechanical failure?

OR

Do you mean oil starvation signs from an improperly maintained vehicle. The engine should look pretty dang good for as meticulously as we have maintained it.

MTPockets
08-05-2006, 09:57 PM
How do you determine oil starvation when the oil was dark and had metal shavings in it from mechanical failure?

OR

Do you mean oil starvation signs from an improperly maintained vehicle. The engine should look pretty dang good for as meticulously as we have maintained it.

Not saying this is your situation, but scored/scortched bearings and camshafts are the typical signs of oil starvtion. If a shop finds a sludged up cylinder head and a clogged screen on the oil pump pickup, they will deem the root cause as lack of maintenance. If the engine is clean internally, you may have had an oil pump failure or catastrophic thrust bearing failure, which leads to worn bearings, oil pressure loss and eventual oil starvation. You wont have any worries if you did oil changes between 3-7K miles.

Joel

markeddy
08-06-2006, 09:14 AM
All of the oil changes were done between 3-7k intervals, mostly between 3-5, after reviewing all the maintenance history I found ONLY one instance where one was done at about 8.5k and I remember that because the oil life my wife commented was around 35%, but this was 35,000 miles ago. Dealership never brought to out attention that this was too long an interval or that they every noticed an issue. Based on the intervals I stated above we have never noticed or had it brought to out attention that we were 1,2,3,4 quarts low on oil, EVER. Let me clarify again, this engine has never burned a drop of oil due to a gasket/manifold/leak issue.

Also, if oil change intervals were ever an issue GM would have never put the 'life' management system on there. GM stands behind this system and specifically states in 2 locations on there website and in the service manual that the oil life monitoring system is the preferred monitoring system of choice for oil change intervals assuming the car isn't burning/leaking oil in which case it has to be done sooner.

Thank you everyone for all the comments, they are greatly appreciated!

wolfpackbud8
08-13-2006, 10:30 AM
I have a 2003 Chevy Trailblazer, engine is making ticking noise at idle. Sounds like lifters or piston rattling. Is there a bulletin or recall on this issue? Tried using 5 30 mobile one synthetic oil, but no change

Blazin
08-24-2006, 09:41 PM
WOW, My TB is having all of that bad performance that comes with having that piston problem. But my vin # is part of the bad batch.
Nearest dealer tells me they only do recalls, they wont work on the engine. Can someone point me in the right direction? I feel like I WAS ROBBED.

mwtrail
09-11-2006, 12:24 PM
My 02 TB LT also has this ticking noise, and has been happening for the past 6-8 months

I have had it into the dealer twice, and the damn noise never seems to happen when its there.

This ticking noise is not only after a cold start, it can happen at anytime, and of course loudest at idle.

What I have noticed though is the ticking stops if the A/C compressor engages.

oil changes provide no relief, and it never seems to happen when I take it to the dealer...

VIN# 1GNDT13S722147507

cocojuan99
09-15-2006, 08:39 PM
I Done Some Research In My Car That Has Lead Me To Believe Its A Bad Lifter

brinks90
09-17-2006, 12:01 AM
yeah, the diesel sound is not right. we have a 2006 trailblazer and it does not sound like a diesel when warming up. there is definetly sounds bad. my aunt and uncle have a 2002 trailblazer too, and gm warrants the engine till 100,000 miles because of the bad sleeve problem, so if the engine goes bad before 100,000 miles, they are suppose to replace it for free.

deemer57
09-27-2006, 09:58 AM
I just recently noticed that on my '02 TrailBlazer. When I first start
it up in the morning, I get a loud knocking noise for about 5 seconds, and then it goes away. Of course, I have 141,000 miles on mine.

MichEnvoyBoy
10-24-2006, 01:53 PM
Well GM just isnt going to replace a motor because its making noise. First off all, just because your VIN is between the affected engines (mine is too - 90,000 miles - sounds like hell) doesnt mean you have a bad cylinder liner! GM engines are generally notorious for piston slap. This is because things have to heat up and expand for the piston slap to go away. Another thing to note is the 4.2 I6 is DOHC design. There are a lot of moving parts on that babys valvetrain. When cold, it can be noisy. The most GM will do is check your engine to see if you have a defective liner, they will not replace an engine unless there is damage, trust me, there a few people that actually had a liner go bad and they went through heck and back getting the engine to be replaced. The 100,000 mile "special warranty" is NOT a "free coupon" to a new engine just because your VIN falls between. :crazy:

If you had a defective liner, you'd have probably found out by now. The engines were put out in 2002, most have over 60,000 miles on them now, you'd most likely have had a problem by now.

sofly02
10-24-2006, 09:54 PM
Last weekend i went to atlanta and it sounded like i was driving a superduty so i put higher grade gas thinking that was the problem but nothing happened.. got up this mornin and cranked my car and it sounded like someone was inside the motor hitting it with a chisel. I just bought it in aug so it still has the used car warranty its a 2002 and has 65k... well of course when i got it there there was no trace of any sound... so they told me to pick it up and i said no because i wanted them to hear the noise so they gave me a loaner and its staying overnight and they are going to look at it again in the morning..

TIKTB8
10-24-2006, 11:22 PM
WOW!! I am sure glad that i found this board. My fiance's 02TB has these exact symptons and the VIN falls between the particular numbers and it only has 85K. Our TB stalls at idle when you give it gas and sounds like crap when you give it gas while driving. I am going to call our service advisor in the morning. I will keep the board updated.

westex39
10-27-2006, 01:20 PM
Piston to bore clearance (piston slap). Every TB/Envoy I-6 I've owned or driven has this knocking sound. As soon as it warms up it goes away.

TIKTB8
10-30-2006, 05:44 PM
Just got off the phone with a service writer and they told me i would have to pay $500 up front for the tear down to see if that was the problem. It will be refunded if this is the problem, if not I am SOL.

myjays
10-30-2006, 10:08 PM
I was a proud owner of a 2002 tb, I am now a proud owner of a blown motor. I wonder how many of you all received the letter about the bore liner. I found out about the day mine blown up the shop manager of the dealership printed it all out for us. Boy was I made when i know it wasnt my fault. Then we bring it up there and they said they think it was a bearing. or what ever. So my husband being the mechanic he is takes it home and takes apart the motor. Today he finally gets the whole motor out which before today he thought this might be fixable. OMG, not, I have pics of my broken pieces anyone would like to see them email me.
Special extended warrentary hmmmmm 100,000 miles mine has 113,000!!!!!!!!!!!!! But my point is If I would of got my special customer letter warning about this, I would of got rid of it. We are going to fight them over this. If I was any of you experiencing this problem My advice to you is get rid of it now. Not only did we have the problem of the motor blowing up when we were looking to fixing it, good luck finding the parts, to new of a model. lol and cant go to wrecking yard cuz then u will just get another bad motor. PLEASE EVERYONE EMAIL ME IF U HAVE THIS PROBLEM, WOULD LOVE TO SHARE MY PICS AND SHOW U WHAT URE MOTOR IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. PLEASE TELL ME IF U RECEIVED THE LETTER MY EMAIL IS myjays@alltel.net

ghoster
10-30-2006, 10:14 PM
You could get a motor off of e-bay with a lot less miles. That problem was cleared up with later model years. anything 04 or newer is safe.:cool:

just to sow you what I mean

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-BRAVADA-4X4-ENVOY-ASCENDER-TRAILBLAZER-ENGINE-1111_W0QQitemZ8072844245QQihZ019QQcategoryZ33615QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

pokinatcha
11-04-2006, 06:47 PM
My 02TB ltz makes a ticking sound when first started up, I'm assuming it is an exhaust manifold leak because the sound sounds more like air seeping out from near the front of the motor and also smells badly like exhaust when you sitting still.
Anyone have or had a similiar problem? Also where is the camshaft "b" position sensor located, looks simple to replace if I can find it.

Thank you to all in advance

eckvoys toy
11-08-2006, 05:07 PM
well this explains my non turbo diesel voy. man its loud i think people can hear me coming from blocks away. good to know that mine isn't the only one. i love this site:)

Swearingsailor6
12-13-2006, 03:55 PM
Hey everyone, I took the time to read through all 15 pages of this sticky, and I am worried about my '03...i am on deployment in iraq, and she keeps telling me about the "knocking" sound in the mornings when she starts the car up to warm it up before work...I thought it was the clutch fan making noise, but not I'm not so sure, my VIN# is way past the breaking point, but I am still worried...I don't trust any of the dealers in the area she is in, and she is 7mo pregnant, with one other child to take care of so she never has the time to go without a vehicle...i won't be going home until Feb when the baby is due, so I guess I will hope and pray that the thing lasts until i get home to take a look at it...we do have one other car, but it is a 6 speed camaro and she doesn't drive stick, and even if she could, she cant get up from the seat cause it is too low for her... my wife is in South Dakota where there is cold weather almost all year round and the ticking sound didn't start until it was cold..so is that the problem "piston slap" ?? I've owned numerous cars and have had the ticking sound in almost everyone of them...a 94 Z28, 83 Monte Carlo SS, 85 Suburban, 77 K5 Blazer, 94 S10 etc....I will just tell her to warm it up good before she drives it too hard. Thanks for the sticky, and it has helped somewhat, although I was looking for a more definitive answer. Thanks everyone!
Ryan

WPK
12-13-2006, 09:21 PM
I have an 02TB, 165K miles, my wife has 02 Envoy, 85K miles - both of them tick tick tick at startup. We warm them up a little more than normal. Once warm, quiet as lambs.

I think it's just the design.

- WPK

mstazlee
12-13-2006, 11:13 PM
I have an 02 Bravada and my vin # is within the list of bad engines. I have 65,000. I took it to the gm garage and they told me it isn't anything to worry about. That it is a piston slap and they all do it. I am afraid that my engine is going to blow. If they all do this then why wouldn't this make the noise at 25,000 miles when I bought it. I started noticing this noise at 60,000. And it wasn't that cold out. The noise does get better when the engine warms up but I can still hear the tapping But it isn't as loud.

Sickness
12-18-2006, 02:02 PM
Thank you all for your help here, my Bravada is making a bit of noise as well, almost too scared to drive it in the mornings, it has moved from a tapping to a loud knocking in the past 6 months. I will be calling my friend at the local dealer here in phoenix to see what i can do about getting this taken care of properly.
Just for the sake of saying this, the noise and knocking is so prevelent that you can actually feel it in the floorboards when your driving it. i do think i may have an issue and hopefully a case. Gm has given me a TAS case number to take to the dealer when they diagnose it legally.

OneHotRT59
01-03-2007, 10:31 PM
From 2003 model year on, the pistons got a polymer-graphite coating on the skirts to help with the noise. In 2006 they added oil squirter holes in the rods to put more oil on the cylinder walls for more noise reduction, so it has been a work in progress.

"Piston rod oil squirters- For improved durability and quietness the piston rod is now drilled with a tiny (less than 1/8th mm) hole, which allows oil to be sprayed on the cylinder wall, providing a cushioning layer on the sides of the piston which rides on the film of oil."


Oil pressure on mine is fine - right up there at 55-60 psi at anything above idle. At idle speed and hot, in gear, with the AC on, it runs at 40 psi. No problem there.

Have you heard of any 06's with the same issues? Mine started with the same noise (sounds like a lifter tick) at about 1,400 miles. Changed the oil to Mobil 1 and it is still noisy. It is usually bad after sitting for at least 1 full day. Then right after starting, bad ticking noise. I video taped the noise and made an appointment. Garage can not duplicate yet. Will pick up in a couple of days if they still can not find problem.

Any Ideas ???

nmreyes
01-07-2007, 05:22 PM
I have a 2002 Envoy SLE and I recently noticed loud rattling noise when I first start the engine specially in the morning. The noise is loud which seems to be coming from underneat perhaps near the catalytic convertor or muffler. When the engine warms up the noise goes away. Is that the engine or the exhaust system? :confused:

02dubduce
01-15-2007, 11:29 AM
so ive gone and read most of the posts, and im a little worried.

my vin falls into the catigory and ive noticed loud engine noises.
at first i thought it was just normal untill i started going threw drivethrew lines at fast food places, especially at the taco bell near me. It seems the ticking / knocking is amplified when im next to the building coming especially frrom the right front of the motor. what scares me is that in the next few months im heading to flordia for school and im at 97.5k without a warrenty. what should i do?

Chevrolet
TrailBlazer
22100007
22357870
22358861

(the bold is my vin)

Braves299
01-15-2007, 11:52 AM
I've got to check into this as well. Mine's been knocking :worried:

Grizzledbiker
01-25-2007, 06:30 PM
This appears to be tappet noise. Standard ops for these engines when cold. Perhaps accentuated by the aluminum construction. Only solution that comes to mind would be to install some sort of electric oil pump and have that bring up oil pressure to the head prior to starting. I believe those may be available through some aftermarket sources. If it does it more in the winter than summer, how is it with folks that use block heaters?

maximus
02-03-2007, 01:22 AM
Wow thats a huge chunk of info just got done reading it all.
So is there anything for us that own a 03 TB built in late 02 yrs. Cause my TB makes that ticking noise all the time no matter when. And it started after 1mnt of my purchase i only have 70k on it. Could it be the lifters? I know its not the fan cluch all though its a common problem for TB i just got a new one waiting to be installed.

ghoster
02-03-2007, 01:26 AM
Wow thats a huge chunk of info just got done reading it all.
So is there anything for us that own a 03 TB built in late 02 yrs. Cause my TB makes that ticking noise all the time no matter when. And it started after 1mnt of my purchase i only have 70k on it. Could it be the lifters? I know its not the fan cluch all though its a common problem for TB i just got a new one waiting to be installed.

Nope, its not lifters. Sounds like it though doesn't it. Mine does it still when its cold. Which leads me to believe that it is the fan clutch. Very recently somebody did a write up on the fan clutches, it kind of explains the tapping. Read this thread, it may shed some more light on it.

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=19604&highlight=fan+clutch

Trailblazin
02-03-2007, 01:34 AM
It's an '02... around 200,000+ KMs on the dial, regular service, pretty much stock TB except for Intake and resonator delete...

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/badz_83/14012007001.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/badz_83/14012007.jpg

Had to pay $1500 for another engine down the scrap yard!! LEast he got an '04 engine

maximus
02-03-2007, 06:23 PM
thankx ghoster for the info. I did order a new cluch fan and i recived it all ready gonna reaplce it and see if it doe the trick.

ghoster
02-03-2007, 06:26 PM
thankx ghoster for the info. I did order a new cluch fan and i recived it all ready gonna reaplce it and see if it doe the trick.

I hope it does!! I need to replace mine still. The update flash helped a some too, instead of tapping all the time, it only taps when its cold. So you may want to have that flash done if you haven't already.:cool:

maximus
02-04-2007, 05:06 PM
ok i was listening yeasturday for that noise from my engine and when i its cold i hear nothing but as soon as the engine warms up i start getting the ticking noise and its coming really loud. I belive its not my clutch fan because it makes differen noise. Ive been batlleing with that engone noise ever soince i bought the car.

chiliheads
03-04-2007, 03:18 PM
Hello All,

Let me first thank you for the valuable information i've gained by reading the posts on this site; on to a quick story:

On my way to work yesterday my engine detonated. I work approx 25 miles from home -- about 24 1/2 miles into my trip, I noticed a fluctuation in my oil pressure. Before as i coasted off the exit ramp, the truck began making a ridiculously loud noise and shut off. I pulled over and rolled to a stop. The engine will now not turn over at all. I had the truck towed to my mechanic (who is off for the weekend) thinking a heafty engine repair/replacement was looming.

Now, because of this post and the information regarding the "non-recall Policy Adjustment" for the 7 yr, 100,000 mile warranty, it may be possible that chevy will flip the bill. I plan to engage the dealer on Monday requesting advice on how to handle.

PS - Vin# is 1GNDT13S622221189 - 2002 TB based on the VIN parameters, i believe, falls within the range for possible replacement.

What do you guys think given the above?? Thanks again for your help to this point, and in advance for your expertise..

Jason

chiliheads
03-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Just a few more items for thought:

1.) I've had the cold-start ticking or knocking noise referred to prior since i've owned the truck (purchased w/30k).

2.) The truck HAS been using oil - approx 1qt every 1000 miles, religiously. The issue yesterday happened approx 2k miles after last oil change.

3.) Oil changes performed religiously, and added Lucas with every change.

Will repost after conversing with Chevy and the Dealer tomorrow.

Jason

MichEnvoyBoy
03-04-2007, 05:56 PM
Chiliheads, let us know how it goes! And dont let your mechanic tear into the engine; AFAIK, the GM dealer must do the teardown to justify replacement under special policy adjustment #03019. Good Luck and please, for the rest of us, post back with the juicy details :D

tbny02
03-04-2007, 08:58 PM
:confused: hey... same on my tb.. starting up it knocks for about 10 minutes then its fine.

chiliheads
03-05-2007, 03:52 PM
I called Chevrolet today, and advised all of the information above. They opened a case and verified that my TB was within the affected range. I then called my local dealer, advised of the situation, and was told that they could "...have the engine in in a few short days or as long as a week." I didnt force the issue but am having the truck towed to them now. They advised that they'll begin breakdown tomorrow (Tuesday).

They also advised that there were even aware of the "special program" offered for this engine problem and asked that I provide them a copy of the documentation I had, printed from earlier posts.

Again, thanks to everyone for the information provided on this site. Without it, I would not even have this longshot fix and would be looking at a serious bill with no recourse.

I will keep everyone posted.

notasinger
03-05-2007, 05:41 PM
Nope, its not lifters. Sounds like it though doesn't it. Mine does it still when its cold. Which leads me to believe that it is the fan clutch. Very recently somebody did a write up on the fan clutches, it kind of explains the tapping. Read this thread, it may shed some more light on it.

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=19604&highlight=fan+clutch

Okay, I've read until my eyes are crossed. Does the ticking from the fan hurt anything other than driving you nuts? I am assuming based on this thread that what I have is the fan clutch. Is there a repair or do you need to replace the unit? Thanks :crazy:

chiliheads
03-07-2007, 05:25 PM
Ok,

So, i'm not getting a great feeling about the outcome of this situation, but I received a call from my dealer today just to advise me that they'll be doing the diagnostics tomorrow and that if they find its not the sleeve issue, they'll be charging me $99.95 for the diagnostics. Obviously, I have no choice but to agree to the charge and *hope* the problem is covered.

Will keep you posted.

Jason

redtb
03-14-2007, 03:04 PM
I have the ticking sound on startup, but it goes away within about 3 minutes. However, when accelerating, even after warming up, I can hear it ticking pretty loud. Anyone else have the loud ticking while accelerating?

Lmhsdaddy
03-23-2007, 03:54 PM
I have the ticking sound on startup, but it goes away within about 3 minutes. However, when accelerating, even after warming up, I can hear it ticking pretty loud. Anyone else have the loud ticking while accelerating?

I certainly do! To me it sounds like a hydraulic lifter going bad. It makes that faint tick tick tick noise. I was going to put some lucas additive or something in at the next oil change. Anyone else had any luck at quiteing this problem down?

shepmankev
03-23-2007, 05:33 PM
I have the ticking noise in my 02 and have used lucas with every oil change and it hasnt helped the ticking noise at all.

BMartin01
04-07-2007, 11:02 AM
I have this same knocking noise in my 04 Trailblazer. I took it in and the service manager told me it was normal at startup until the engine warmed up. So I guess GM hasn't tried to fix this problem dating back to '01. Seems typical of GM.

tommykaira2000
04-07-2007, 04:36 PM
I have an 02 Envoy with 63k. once in a while i get a tick when first started in the morning (temps being around 30 degrees), sometimes its there and sometimes its not, even when warm. it was actually the injectors making that loud tick an easy way to locate any tick is to take a fuel hose hold one end to your ear and use the other end to probe. a long handled screwdriver also works. another vehicle that i had was a dodge intrepid with the same tick, and it was also the injectors. if anyone has a tick that would be the first place that i would rule out.

if it turns out to be in the valvetrain, DOHC systems are difficult to keep adjusted, with 24 valves there is going to be at least one thats always going to tick.

MItrailblazer
04-09-2007, 08:32 AM
I have the same problem with my 2002 tb, 87,000 miles. Sounds like a diesel untill warm. Found out that my vin does fall in the possible replacement area. I took it to the dealer that we bought it from and they said there is nothing wrong.... I know better. Even before joining this site this morning, I knew something was NOT right with it. I am going to call the number for Chevrolet from the info on page 2.

I want them to replace the engine!!!! We bought the tb with a 3,000 mile / 3 month warranty. I was getting nervous because the warranty expires in about 600 miles, but now I feel a little more at ease knowing about the 7 year / 100,000 mile seceret warranty on this. I just hope that this is the problem. I assume that my dealership knows about this problem, however, if not, can I just print out the info from page 2, or is there another place I should get the info from..

Nasty06
04-25-2007, 09:50 AM
I have an 2006 trailblazer and it has the most horrible sound when it is warming up... havent taken it to chevy b/c they dont do anything...

palmettotb
04-26-2007, 05:09 AM
I had the same ticking noise...my fan was somehow loose, and It wore out the bearing on the water pump, replaced water pump at 41K, still have ticking noise, i need to get the fan checked out, just afraid of what i'm gonna have to pay for repairs,.

2002greentb
05-30-2007, 11:38 PM
Well my ticking noises arent only when cold my truck starts up and runs fine when cold my ticking noises are not all the time. when i pull up to a drive thru window or something my engine ticks for a minute then stops. But while im driving i cannot hear it, or even when im not driving it cannot be heard inside the truck unless the windows are open, and even then its not very loud. Any suggestions on what it could be?

MichEnvoyBoy
06-13-2007, 06:37 PM
2002greentb, mine is the same way and funny you mention that about the drive thrus because thats when I hear it too :D

I also have a 2002 T360. Realize we have a DOHC engine with exhaust VVT. Ticks and valve train noises are eventually going to be inevitable. Go test drive any GM vehicle (i.e. the infamous 3.4L engine) THAT engine sounds bad, at much earlier mileage.
My VIN falls right between the effected VIN's with the possible bad cylinder liners too but at 99,000 miles - its unlikely Ill ever have a problem with the engine.

johnmondelli
07-03-2007, 12:08 PM
My 2003 Trailblazer does the same dam thing, when starting up it is louder then my old vette. It does settle down. The dealer said it is normal also but who knows.

GMCVoy07
07-10-2007, 11:27 PM
Hey I had just put an aftermarket muffler on my 07' Voy and i took out the resinator! but lately for some reason its kinda bucking or sputtering, i cant really explain it but it doesnt happen all the time. Its almost like the idle is LOW and it kicks, goes up,down,up,down! Idk whats wrong any suggestions?!?!?!?!?:confused:

bcmedic1
07-20-2007, 05:32 PM
My truck has been knockin since day 1. I've taken it to GM 4-5 times..( its on paper ). They have told me 1. What knocking noise?, 2. That knock is normal,
3. Oh look you have the wrong oil filter its a FRAM not an AC Delco filter,
4. Oh and look your running the wrong oil!! ( HMMM...I only wrote SYNTHETIC OIL ONLY on the Vortec cover !!!!)and 5, It will go away!!! I still run GTX 10/30 winter, 30w summer and AC Delco filters.. no changes in noise.

Go back as many times as you have to...If its documented by GM (under warranty) and it grenades, GM has a lot of back pedalin'.
OOOH and by the way DONT GIVE UP!
GM was ORDERED to buy my (bought feb05 right out of the show room without a test drive) loaded 05 GMC Jimmy back in feb 06 with 24000highway kms in 10mths!!! hadnt even been offroad yet!!! GM had to pay me every dollar i paid for it , no deductions at all.
Dont forget to look in your owners manual (alot of people just fire it in the glovebox without a glance) and read the consumers protection part.
YOU HAVE RIGHTS AS AN OWNER !!!!!! And we won after taking that
BIG CORPORATION to task...ya me and my wife. Two consumers who had taken enuff of their BULLS@#T and tsk tsk attitude. Your paying for something that they continue to get paid for, even if it is a piece of CR#P. To us that was stealing our $$$ every month.

I have lots of warranty left and I will be back KNOCKIN' on their door again and again if need be.

:grouphug:

agates1272
07-23-2007, 06:31 PM
I just bought an '05 Envoy SLE with just under 34k miles on it. Had it less than a week, and I heard the same damn noise, as well as huge fluctuations on the voltage guage and flickering headlights at night. I know the'yre going to replace the alternator, but if they tell me that the noise is "normal", I swear to God I'll slap the advisor straight across the face. I can't imagine that this metal on metal noise can be considered "normal". It has to be doing some kind of damage somewhere in the valve train.

Thank God I bought an extended warranty....but even with that, I'm not sure I'm protected. You know that when the cylinder grenades, it's going to come down to whether or not I changed the oil, used the right type, drove it beyond it's limits, blah blah blah. It's unfortunate the the 7 year, 700k special warranty doesn't apply to my Envoy.

By the way, I traded my 99 Durango with the 5.9 for this...I'm absolutely in love with the Envoy.:thumbsup:

agates1272
07-25-2007, 11:37 AM
Ok, so I just got my TrailVoy back, and as predicted, I was told it's "normal".

"Due to the narrow tolerances of the engine components, blah blah blah."

No, I didn't slap the advisor, but I wanted to. He assured me that there is no damage being done, and that once the engine warms up, the noise will fade. Duh.

Anyone else have any advice on this? There are several thousand people on this forum, and I've only seen a handful that have the same issue. If it's indeed "normal", everyone should be having this problem.

Funny enough, I was given an '05 trailblazer with almost identical mileage to drive for a day and a half while they checked out the Envoy, and what do you know...it didn't make a sound. :hissy::hissy::hissy::hissy::hissy::hissy:

MidwestSpecial
07-31-2007, 05:47 PM
www.pistonslap.com

Hurleybob
08-01-2007, 08:16 PM
So pistonslap.com says that our
" ... pistons of slightly varying size (all within spec) are not individually matched with the cylinders of slightly varying size".

I too have a 2002 Bravada with 60K that has developed a knock and I am sure that its piston slap for whatever reason.
But to think that GM used to have people going though stacks of pistions, hand-fitting (matching) them into new cylinder blocks on the manufacturing floor prior to this seems a little silly. One engine perhaps, but mass production, that would be hard to imagine.

johnt000
08-02-2007, 01:09 PM
My I6 developed a knock (piston slap) and the dealer first said I had a bad cam sensor. Now it is in the shop and they said it is a bad cam solenoid. Their recommendation - now would be a good time to trade it in.:confused:

zepcom
08-03-2007, 08:24 AM
My I6 developed a knock (piston slap) and the dealer first said I had a bad cam sensor. Now it is in the shop and they said it is a bad cam solenoid. Their recommendation - now would be a good time to trade it in.:confused:

How many miles on yours, and does the VIN fall under their replacement range?

johnt000
08-08-2007, 02:02 PM
Yes it falls in the time frame and vin number, but they do not have a borescope (a requirement of the factory) and do not want to invest in the time it takes to do a tear down since this would exceed the time for a engine replacement$$$. It really sucks!

ylab
08-08-2007, 02:09 PM
Usually piston slap on the I6 only occurs when first started cold and goes away when fully warmed up. If the noise continues after the engine warms up, it may be something more than piston slap. I had a horrible tap/knock sound in my '02 a few years back in '04 I believe and the dealer finally had the factory rep listen to it, he declared it a failing liner and instructed the dealer to replace the motor under warranty.

If the dealer is unable to determine the issue, see if you can push them to have the factory rep listen the motor. He has the authority to approve a replacement, should that be the problem.

johnt000
08-09-2007, 02:03 PM
I bought a used I6 motor for my 02 Envoy for $850.00. It has less than 50K and has a 6 month warranty. Guess what I am doing this weekend. Does anyone have advice for this engine swap? Has anyone done this? Would it be worth taking pics and writing about?

borgerbr
10-03-2007, 01:10 PM
I bought a used I6 motor for my 02 Envoy for $850.00. It has less than 50K and has a 6 month warranty. Guess what I am doing this weekend. Does anyone have advice for this engine swap? Has anyone done this? Would it be worth taking pics and writing about?

Good luck on the engine swap. My '03 TB with about 78,000 miles developed a serious knock and the SES light came on. I had the code checked at Autozone and they indicated that it was simply reading as misfire (didn't say if it was tied to a particular cylinder). I decided at that point to buy my own code reader. After clearing a few retained codes, the only one that came back after restarting the engine and letting it run was the one for the cam and crank sensors being out of sync. I then took it to the local GM dealership to confirm the diagnosis and to find out which part needed replacing (ie., cam sensor, crank sensor, cam solenoid or some combination of things). They told me that the oil was low and that was the cause of the engine knock and that the engine needs to be replaced!?! I had just recently changed the oil myself - and it wasn't burning any. In any event, the oil pressure gauge never gave any hint that the oil level was low, so I have no idea how this occurred. In any even, it'll be $3,200 to have it replaced. I would have liked to do it myself, but based on the limited amount of time I have and the scope of the job (I understand that the motor swap for a TB is more complicated that other vehicles) - I've decided to have it done.:no:

GMT 360
10-04-2007, 11:08 PM
ok...Just picked up my TB from the dealership. They said they did hear the tapping I described. They said they ran it from where it was dropped off to a bay, about 50 ft away. It never warmed up. They did a PCM reprogram as per bulletin 05-06-02-004. When they started it up again, no noise. I got into it at about 8:30 and it was cold again and I heard no sounds. The real test will be in the morning when its really cold and I start it up.

Something else to look at/listen for: There was a period when the controls for the fan clutch would open and close the valve to bring fan speeds at idle up - the result is a mechanical clicking noise. Once this was discovered they changed the control algorithm to fully open the valve and the noise goes away.

The best way to determine if the fan clutch is ticking is to stand in from of the vehicle and see if the sound is coming straight through the radiator - if that is the source then a reflash of the PCM will take care of the problem.

Hurleybob
11-21-2007, 12:20 PM
Hello,
I read this sticky with great interest three months ago when my 2002 Bravada developed a knock at 50,000 miles, and so want to add my experience for others to share. At first it was most noticeable when cold, but after a month it continued strong after warm-up. I mean a real (diesel engine sounding) KNOCK, not a tap nor a ping. My 2002 engine fell into the problematic VIN number range documented earlier in sticky append 11. Yet it ran FINE, no codes, no smoke, no apparent problem other then a knock so bad my neighbors were asking me about it. It continued at 55,000 miles when I decided to investigate since my extended warrantee runs out in 6 months.

My local Chevy dealer has a poor reputation, and the local Oldsmobile dealer is now selling Subarus, so a GM employee friend recommended a GMC dealer 35 miles from home with a good reputation. They were very sympathetic and quick to agree that something was obviously wrong. They did not hesitate to pull the head and determined the cause was the infamous 'cracked cylinder bore liner'. The only option was a replacement engine. That was completed yesterday, a 'remanufactured service engine' that is now running smoothly. No cost to me.

I hope that I am the last owner with one of these defective engines, within these VIN number ranges, but I doubt it. In my case the engine ran fine for 50,000 miles. I see people are being told excuses, like you let your oil run low, are using incorrect oil or filter, that its piston slap, etc. I am not offering advise beyond this since I am not a mechanic; if you have one of these engines and it has an oblivious knock that does not go away after warm-up, the best thing you can do it find a GM dealer with a good service reputation and have them take a listen.
If a replacement is needed, the dealer is totally reimbursed by GM for labor and parts, so a capable dealer should be willing to help.
Bob

Otter0172
12-05-2007, 09:37 PM
My 2002 TB is not within the VIN Breakpoint, but it still sounds horrible the first 5 minutes of driving. Is it possible that the cylinder wall problem could still be an issue? The VIN is pretty close to the last breakpoint number. It is 22463254 and the last breakpoint number is 22358861. Will it still be covered under the warranty if that is the case?:confused:

I have the same problem as my TB is also out of the specified range of Vin#s but is still experiencing the same noises and coolant loss over short periods of time. Did you find out anything? Please let me know as soon as you can since my engine is tore apart right now looking for the "Castech" casting mark.

Thanks,
Otter

wyatt2996
12-07-2007, 02:23 PM
yes i hear it too on cold morning starts. i didnt notice it however until i got into the colder regions of the mid west and north east. i am on a move to maryland, where i set these posts to, since i will be there before the end of the year. and i noticed it on the cold mornings in northern idaho, where i am moving from. and i noticed it in upstate NY last week as well. that points me to the oil is non synthetic, and i believe my next oil change will be synthetic. seems that is what the general consensus is that quieted it down. i didnt really hear it at all when looking around the top end of the motor, but from the sides of the vehicle it sounds like a little dwarf with a small hammer tapping. so unless the synthetic oil really didnt help, i will be doing the oil change to synthetic. mobil 1 5w30 full synthetic.

note: it does go away after about 5-10 minutes when it is warmed up.

Trannyman95
12-15-2007, 09:57 PM
I am also experiencing the tapping noise on startup cold. It is only after it sits overnight and less than 40ish deg outside. It does not in any way sound like engine noise but is a pretty noisy. I may take it to the dealer and have a reflash done to see if it the fan noise mentioned earlier. The volume of it is always the same and repetitive. It lasts about 30 seconds or so only on a cold startup and goes from noise to nothing at all, it doesnt slowly fade away. I have used Mobil 1 5W30 synthetic oil since around 6K miles on the truck also and again I really dont think it is an engine noise so hopefully a reflash will help out.

MichEnvoyBoy
12-16-2007, 05:41 PM
Besides using synthetic oil, or a good semi-syn,I added a OEM GM Goodwrench engine block heater (search my posts for writeup) last year. It helps my 'Voy warm up real fast hence less noise. My VIN falls right smack in the middle, I have a special policy letter from GM, blah blah blah but that doesnt matter because I have 106,000 miles now. I dont think I have a liner problem, just typical GM piston slap/valvetrain noise.

leachman74
12-17-2007, 04:35 PM
I seen your post about that service bulletin 03019. I have a 02 TB that was outside of the vin numbers in fact my last eight started with 2243****. However I've been getting the diesel sounding noise for about a month now. I'm getting close to 90K. I called the national chevy number and they said I might fall under that recall. I called the dealership and they might be able to help. If I bring it in and they diagnose as the same problem, is there any way they can cop out of it, because my VIN wasn't in the range? If for some reason this isn't the problem it might be very costly just to have it diagnosed. I haven't had any engine lights yet. I just spent over $1300 getting new shocks, struts and tires. The last thing I need is a blown motor. This kinda gives me a sick feeling being this is my family vehicle. I'm hoping to atleast get a few more years out of it. I've never missed an oil change I've been really good about preventive maintenance. I'm the orginal owner.

waterskier98
12-17-2007, 10:24 PM
Here's one possible solution.....put a bottle of Z-Max in the oil (it's sold at most major auto part stores - about $20). I did this on my 05 Trailblazer and it eliminated about 50 percent of the tapping noise (when the engine is cold), and eliminated about 90-100 percent of the engine noise after it's warmed up. It's also been averaging about 1/2 to 1 mpg better mileage overall. In my Monte Carlo, I've been getting 2 to 3 mpg improvement since adding the stuff. I keep track of my mileage at every fill up and can say this stuff definitely works.

Hurleybob
12-18-2007, 08:26 AM
"I called the dealership and they might be able to help".

Well by all means, give this a shot before doing anything else. You have nothing to lose. Let us know how you make out.

ToyBlaze
12-18-2007, 01:33 PM
:drool
I have read all 21 pages:coffee, ours just makes the "tick while warming up", after that just injector noises. At 90+ thousand miles I guess we'll just wait and see what happens as I haven't heard the "death rattle" after warming up. My luck, it'll grenade at 100,001 miles:sadcry:. I may have it looked into just so I'm not :bonk:ing myself later. Thanks for the sticky post... very helpful.
:thumbsup:

zippy
12-18-2007, 09:31 PM
I have an 02 Envoy that on cold start and for about 5-10 min after has a lifter type noise that diminishes until full warm up. I understand the cylinder bore liner cracking potential and have had my dealer evaluate the noise. They said they heard a slight noise but it is not the issue identified by G03019 buliten.... The put in a carbon cleaner and said if it gets worse come back... I have 94,000 miles and concerned that the issue is the bore liner but have no understanding if my sounds are the early signals of the engin failure issue. Does any one have the detailed symptoms and the corect diagnosis procedure?

Thank you,
Zippy

Trannyman95
12-18-2007, 10:10 PM
I have an odd update to my loud noise at startup.... This morning when I started it up I needed to take off and was kinda in a hurry. I turned on the rear defrost Id say about 5 seconds after I started the truck and it instantly quit making noise! Not sure for what reason, but it was quiet as normal from then on. Idle rpm didnt change as it was already a bit high from the cold start.

Mud
12-19-2007, 11:45 AM
I called my dealer about my engine noise. I explained that my engine is making noise plus I sometimes stall when sitting at a stop light. My VIN does fall under the affected range. The guy told me to come by and they will scope it but of course they are going to charge me. He also told me that the noise you hear is really loud, you could hear it from 50 feet away. I can hear mine from about 15 - 20 feet away but not from 50. Is there any way to get this looked out without paying $500+.

Mine knocks when it's cold and when it's warm. It even knocks in the summer when it's 90 degree weather. I can hear it echoing when I pass by buildings and such that are within 15 feet or so. I've ran Mobile One for the past year and it does not seem to really help it. Gonna fill the tank up and let it sit outside idling for a while to see if I can figure out where the noise is coming from when it's warm.

Oh yea.. I bought my Trailblazer from a local chevy dearlership about 2.5 years ago and it had no engine noise at the time. It had 62k on it and now it's around 80k.

bigkeyz
12-24-2007, 01:39 PM
what was most peoples outcome who fell in this vin range. could i check my vin somewhere to see what if any recalls have been done to it??

Hurleybob
12-26-2007, 04:26 PM
what was most peoples outcome who fell in this vin range. could i check my vin somewhere to see what if any recalls have been done to it??

If your asking what percentage of these vehicles have had engine failures only GM would know the complete answer. Regarding your truck (did you buy it used and that is why your asking?), any GM dealer's service department should be able to look that up for you based on your VIN. I don't know any other way to determine what your asking.

bigkeyz
12-26-2007, 05:02 PM
yeh im asking cause i bought it used. and i wasnt looking for a # or anything just wanted to know some of the other peoples experiences.

sansoo22
01-06-2008, 02:33 AM
Finding this thread is quite disheartening. I have a 2002 TB produced in 01. Have had it since brand new. Only major thing that went out was the 4wd and that was due to an electrical issue.

I live in Kansas and rarely do we get days that dont get above freezing but this last week we had morning lows in the teens and i never once heard any noise from the motor. I dont have efans yet so the fan is loud as hell but thats it.

I hope you guys get all this resolved who are having issues. Keep us posted on what you have to tell your dealer to get it taken care of properly.

jimbra310
01-07-2008, 03:53 AM
I have a question, I am noticing the same thing early stages. After warm-up it still makes a small amount of noise that wasn't there before or when I bought the truck. why are they insisting things are normal when we haven't had the problem before? When I got the truck, it hummed and I let it warm up so the oil could get to all the moving parts. Now I get knocking when I start up. After I drive it for awhile and it warms up, I don't hear it as much, but i get some vibration with it. Sounds like they don't want to bear the expense of a new motor.

Second question, Was there ever a RECALL for this problem?? Thanks:ugh:

Only1Balto
01-08-2008, 12:05 AM
:worried: Well I'll just add mines does that too.

falc420
01-19-2008, 06:51 PM
I see that there's a range of VIN numbers affected by this problem (mine being one of them.) Does GM use all of the VIN numbers or do they skip some? In other words, were there really about 258,850 trailvoys that potentially have this problem? :eek:

Also, does anybody have an idea of a ballpark number of vehicles that have already had their engines replaced under this particular "this is not a recall"?

Thanks
-falc420

retardturtle
01-23-2008, 04:15 PM
BS!! Go to another GM dealership with the truck. Mine had the problem at 17,500 miles. Sounds like the dealer just doesn't want to work.your dealer is full of crap....my buddy had a 06 civic w blown head that wasted the motor...the dealer swore this was an unheard of problem..denied him...even under wrnty....said he caused the probs....so his wrnty was void.....i clean a honda dealership at night aft all r gone....and the service bays r full of civics w blown heads and paper wk for new motors.....so he called corperate and got a new motor and trans w nw warnty.....your dealer is only trying to keep service warnty hours and cost down....dont give up....call corperate....good luck

kdawg22
01-27-2008, 02:48 PM
Hello... I recently in the last few months started getting a single LOUD knock when first starting my '02 Envoy (55k miles) when its cold, after about a minute of just sitting in my driveway. I'm going to try and open up my hood and capture it so I can tell what side of the engine it's coming from. Seems like passenger side from the inside of the car at least.

I do remember receiving the 7 year/100k engine replacement paper in the mail... can someone lookup my VIN?

VIN# 1GKDS13SX22352741

I read all the pages on this thread, but I'm still not sure at what point or how the dealer determines if the engine replacement is necessary... I don't want to waste the time having the dealer say "That's normal", but I don't want to be stuck with a blown engine come March 2009, seeing as I don't drive this very heavy and might put on 6-7k miles by then.

thanks
-kdawg22

Hurleybob
01-28-2008, 08:54 AM
Sorry to hear. Regarding your VIN, see append #13.

Sounds similar to my 2002 Bravada which started a single loud knock at around 60K miles. I assume that it does not improve at all when hot?

I would find a GM dealer with a great service reputation and start there with waiting. I asked around and found a good one 35 miles away and it was worth it. They are not all the same.

Once they heard the knock they agreed that something was very wrong and pulled the head without hesitation that afternoon to determine that the cylinder liner problem had developed on one cylinder. They told me that eventually it would result in service codes and finally in destruction. Result was a remanfactured engine at no cost to me.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

bowtieboy
02-03-2008, 07:10 PM
Just checked the recall notice and my 02 TB falls into this range of VIN #s. I do have a knocking sound that does not go away no matter what the temperature is outside or what the temp of the engine is. Would I still qualify for the a new motor / repair if I purchased the vehicle in the US and brought it back to Canada?

rrufast
02-03-2008, 08:42 PM
Had a HORRIBLE knocking in my '02 LS 4WD. Sounded like it was ready to throw a rod.. like a stuck valve or lifter.

Changed oil in it... same problem. Drove it for about 40 miles and problem went away. I did add some Lucas oil treatment in as I did the oil change.

I don't have my VIN number handy, but I'll def check it out.

I've had to replace the fan clutch already. Been there. Done that.

Needs new shocks/struts and sway bar bushings right now. Currently at 65k miles. Owned it since it had 15k or so. Father in law owned it before that.

Will be looking in other forums for advice on what struts/shocks I should get. Also woudl like to replace the exhaust since I'll be keeping it a while. Nothing obnoxious, just want a little more rumble.. :0

SCs_5th_Gen
03-06-2008, 06:08 PM
My 05 Envoy just recently started sounding like a diesel when first started.
69k miles. Should i be worried?

DARKASS04EXT
03-21-2008, 08:20 AM
I just bought a 2004 ext lt, 45,000m. and its very loud at startup, atleast until fully warmed up. the noise can be heard all throughout my house. also just in the last week the Service light and service 4x4 lights came on at seperate times and have since gone out. my VIN is 1GNET16S446158346. I just bought this truck Feb 26th,2008 from DIVER chevy in Wilmington DE.

zepcom
03-21-2008, 08:55 AM
I just bought a 2004 ext lt, 45,000m. and its very loud at startup, atleast until fully warmed up. the noise can be heard all throughout my house. also just in the last week the Service light and service 4x4 lights came on at seperate times and have since gone out. my VIN is 1GNET16S446158346. I just bought this truck Feb 26th,2008 from DIVER chevy in Wilmington DE.


Ummmm... first of all... TAKE IT BACK TO YOUR DEALER!
You're still within the first 30 days so I'd say take it back to the dealer and raise a little he77 with them stating that you expected the truck to be in good working order, yet you have the ses and service 4x4 lights on, and tell them that you need it fixed. Under warrantee. Most states have a 30-day lemon law, you might want to check into yours. You did buy it used, but was it a "certified GM used" truck??? If it is, check your purchase paperwork.

As far as the engine loud noise; as you see from this thread there are many trucks in that year range that sound like deisels until their warmed up. While the truck is getting fixed at the dealer (on THEIR DIME, see above) have them document that you notice the engine is excessively loud when it first starts up and have them look at that too. This way, you might have a little recourse if within another month you blow the engine, you could potentially go back to the dealership and claim faulty diagnosis.

On the other hand, the engine sound goes away once warmed up and many people on this board have put lots of miles on these trucks with that condition... it's not necessarily a precursor to a blown engine. Just play it safe, don't drive hard before the truck warms up, and keep a keen ear peeled for any changes in sounds. If that happens, take it in right away to get a diagnosis and fix.

Good luck!! Hopefully the GM dealership you bought the truck from will take care of the ses and service 4wd lights at no charge. If they charge you, If it were me, I'd get mad, ask to see a manager, and then demand why these issues were not fixed before you were sold the truck in the first place!! Sometimes it's better business for the dealership to chaulk it up to "should have spent more time getting it ready for sale" and eat the costs, verses getting the potential bad publicity of an unhappy customer (you).

:( best of luck though... :yes:

--zepcom

Twisttop
04-18-2008, 08:35 PM
Hi All,

With regards to the knocking sound in the engine, it is a known issue with all GMC/Chevy trucks from 00 to 05. I had an 03 1500 Silverado and my dad (still) owns his 2001 2500 Silverado and when they start up they sound like a diesal. After doing some investigation, the noise occurs (in our vehicles) because the piston is a slightly different shape than the casing. GM told me and my dad that it goes away after it gets to normal running temperature. They told my dad, who contiues to have the problem today that they have never had a vehicle where this issue led to a dead engine, however at the same time they gave him a free extended warrenty and promised a replacement if the engine went.

His truck still does it, and both warranties are far over. Something they no about, but just won't fix it.

Hope that helps a bit.

Cheers!

swolf900
05-13-2008, 06:20 PM
Hey all,
First post! I am so glad to find this site. I have a 2002 Envoy with 188,000 miles and I have lived with the engine noise for quiet awhile now. Besides the Diesel and/or ticking sound I also get a sound that can best be described as a gurgling sound when I accelerate. It almost sounds like the cooling fan is flexing or maybe even rubbing something. It seems a bit intermittent but worse when cold. Any guidance?

jordy1982
05-23-2008, 11:46 PM
I have a knocking noise on the passanger side of the motor, it has got mobil 1 since day one and just now I am getting this problem. the first trip to the dealer they could not hear it, go figure.. but after I had gone to another dealer and had a tech on it all day he heard the noise.. that cost me some money, but just wanted to make sure i was not crazy, But the warranty was thru my dealer(it was free as long as I had it serviced there) which I was going to do anyways. so I got the tb back to my dealer which it spent most of the day there and they found the noise and they said it was not loud enough to tear the motor apart to find it, so I have to wait untill it get's worse.. great I'll be driving down the road and it will leave me stranded FNAS**HOLE'S, but they will fix it when it does, I hope i get a new motor It just a little aggraviting to hear your motor sound like this especially when I've got the 22's on there.......




does it sound like it is coming from the exhaust side of the head around the number 1 or 2 cylinders. mine clicks really bad and it never quits. im thinking it might be some bad lash adjusters. thats the only thing that i can think of. i put 10w30 full synthetic oil and it didnt go away and its pissing me off.

TRAILBLAZIN_02
08-14-2008, 10:58 PM
The '02 TB we just bought 1 week ago has the diesel tick most of the time. It's not EVERY cold startup and then sometimes it continues long after the temp. gauge reaches the 200-210 mark. We also have a slight stutter in the engine when hitting the gas off idle. Sometimes the 4.2 almost dies off idle but not every time, but there is always a hesitation. I haven't noticed any MAJOR power loss (I'm guessing since i have only owned it for a week that it still has close to new HP) but the diesel tick and throttle bog has me worried since we'e so close to the 7 year mark and just purchased a potential $10,000 lawn ornament. If anyone has experienced any of these same problems that I have please contact me so I can find out if i need to have it serviced by a "GM GARAGE". Thanks in advance!:hail:

2002greentb
08-15-2008, 04:52 PM
The '02 TB we just bought 1 week ago has the diesel tick most of the time. It's not EVERY cold startup and then sometimes it continues long after the temp. gauge reaches the 200-210 mark. We also have a slight stutter in the engine when hitting the gas off idle. Sometimes the 4.2 almost dies off idle but not every time, but there is always a hesitation. I haven't noticed any MAJOR power loss (I'm guessing since i have only owned it for a week that it still has close to new HP) but the diesel tick and throttle bog has me worried since we'e so close to the 7 year mark and just purchased a potential $10,000 lawn ornament. If anyone has experienced any of these same problems that I have please contact me so I can find out if i need to have it serviced by a "GM GARAGE". Thanks in advance!:hail:

Trailblazin i have the same issue with my tb also an 02. The ticking i had fixed one time at a local dealership they said it was the fan switch, they replaced it and it was fine, however the dang tick is back im hoping they fix it free this time. Also the engine bog is it when you put it in drive from reverse, cuz i also have that issue, had the issue in a previous car, it was the transmission fluid pressure switch. I didnt have it looked at on the tb, not an issue no loss of power or how nice the engine runs. No lawn ornament there, tb's are great i have had mine for 2 years now, and it was in the shop 1 time, for that fan switch and for my 4wd service light. other then that routine maintenance. just hit 70000 yesterday!!!

TRAILBLAZIN_02
08-15-2008, 09:06 PM
My engine hesitation isn't when i shift, it happens in any gear (especially off idle in park or neutral). I just was wondering if this sounded like the bad cylinder sleeve problem the TBs are noted for. I'm not just looking to score a free engine courtesy of GM but I'm just so close to the 7 year mark that it worries me. I figure if the engine was going to fail it would've done it before 62k but I don't want to take any chances with it. Maybe it will end up being the fan clutch. I just walked in from taking the TB on a 300 mile round trip haul and noticed the diesel sound the ENTIRE trip. Does the fan ticking usually quiet down after warm up? Just trying as hard as I can to eliminate possibilities before i go to the GM garage and have it "diagnosed" on my dime for them to tell me "THIS IS NORMAL FOR YOU VEHICLE". Thanks again.

bbrase
09-27-2008, 05:39 PM
I had a ticking/tapping sound thought it was the fan clutch, replaced clutch no change. Also had a hesitation on acceleration around 2K RPM mostily under load/going up hill. It ended up being the transmission which went out. Rebuilt transmission and no more ticking. Check transmission, burnt fluid or metal shavings in fluid maybe an indication.

TJ Barris
09-30-2008, 12:27 PM
These forums will guide you to a lot of different ticks and taps, but if you have an '02, don't be too quick to overlook a possible exhaust manifold leak. A good, experienced ear can identify this and, if it's like others I've read about, it will be coming from the forward end of the manifold. A TSB (#02-06-01-032) identified this problem and calls for new gasket and new bolts. Seems the original bolts would not stay tight (either too long or too ductile, depending on who you believe) and a slight leak would develop. My '02 has been doing this. The noise is reminiscent of tappet clacking on an old Chevy, for those of you old enough to be familiar with pre-overhead cam engines, and constantly adjusting rocker arms.:crazy: I'm in the middle of replacing my gasket and bolts now. We'll see if the noise goes away.

Juanchojen
10-06-2008, 11:23 AM
:hissy:GM likes to deny coverage on vehicles. I am going through a fight with them right now. I have a 07 Envoy that doesn't start. One day I left it running while I ran into the house to get something and when I came back out the engine started shaking and antifreeze spewed everywhere. GM denyed my claim. They said because I do not have maintenence records they will not use the warrenty to fix my vehicle. The oil changes were done by my fiance and I didn't keep the receipts from the auto store. This was my first time ever purchasing a new vehicle so I was not aware of what I needed to have for the factory warrenty to cover my vehicle if anything happened. It only has 30K miles on it. 5K over the lemon law. I am skrewed. :x

ilikemy3s
10-06-2008, 11:37 AM
:hissy:GM likes to deny coverage on vehicles. I am going through a fight with them right now. I have a 07 Envoy that doesn't start. One day I left it running while I ran into the house to get something and when I came back out the engine started shaking and antifreeze spewed everywhere. GM denyed my claim. They said because I do not have maintenence records they will not use the warrenty to fix my vehicle. The oil changes were done by my fiance and I didn't keep the receipts from the auto store. This was my first time ever purchasing a new vehicle so I was not aware of what I needed to have for the factory warrenty to cover my vehicle if anything happened. It only has 30K miles on it. 5K over the lemon law. I am skrewed. :x

If you only have 30k miles on the clock then you should still be covered under the basic warranty. Try taking it to another dealer or atleast another ASE certified garage

Juanchojen
10-06-2008, 11:47 AM
If you only have 30k miles on the clock then you should still be covered under the basic warranty. Try taking it to another dealer or atleast another ASE certified garage

I tryed that but they blocked the warrenty on the engine.

Robert1101
10-06-2008, 05:14 PM
Write GM fed corp. , GM state Corp, local dealer and carbon copy everybody with doc's. They do not like unhappy customers. One unhappy customer will tell 100's people why and that is not good cust. relations. Get email addresses for everybody from the bottom up and carbon copy them all. It usually will work. Last ditch effort email Ralph Nader, and I do not like him, but he has done a lot of work for a lot of people not to mention that he killed the Corvar on his own. Rattle lots of cages and do not give up.

Jerrytenn98
12-06-2008, 07:02 AM
I would like to say hello to the trailvoy family I just bought this o4 TB and would like to ask a question, ever since the weather started to get colder my TB sounds more and more like a diesel and just wondering if a lucas, rislone or sea foam would help out with that? once it warms up the diesel goes away and I get my 4.2 back. (Michigan cold weather)

TJ Barris
12-11-2008, 01:59 PM
My Michigan '02 has the same cold weather start up noise. I started hearing it after I recently replaced my leaking exhaust manifold gasket, which was making an even louder ticking/tapping noise. The noise I have now does quiet down after a few minutes, but I'd like to know if it's a problem or just an annoyance.

john bulba
12-16-2008, 12:03 PM
Hi, I have a brother who's 2006 4.2L tailblazer Is doing the same thing :(,The lower end of the motor seems to have a rod knock.

I wanted to know if a motor out of a 2005 will bolt right in without having to make any changes,Will all the sensors plug in? Any issue with the exhaust? oil pan? ETC...Take out motors for 05's seem to be much cheaper..Thanks for your help...John

Super 88
12-16-2008, 12:22 PM
Hi, I have a brother who's 2006 4.2L tailblazer Is doing the same thing :(,The lower end of the motor seems to have a rod knock.

I wanted to know if a motor out of a 2005 will bolt right in without having to make any changes,Will all the sensors plug in? Any issue with the exhaust? oil pan? ETC...Take out motors for 05's seem to be much cheaper..Thanks for your help...John

Does the "rod knock" only happen when the engine is cold, or all the time?

petevw
12-16-2008, 12:53 PM
Well, some of the '02's had a bad cylinder sleeve. Have you had your TB checked for this problem? What is the vin or serial # and someone here can check and see if your vehicle falls within the problem range.

IMO, since he did mention a smooth idle, and that the problem went away eventually (probably after warm-up), it could be an oil related problem. I have read that changing the oil filter to a better one allows more oil past the bypass valve when cold. Using synthetic oil may help too.

As for the initial noise, is it a tap or a knock? A knocking engine sounds like a person is hitting the insides of the engine with a hammer. A tapping is like much "lighter" in sound.

If he has a bad sleeve, I don't think he would be able to go on any long trips, as he mentioned he did. What actually happens is that the sleeves in the early I6 motors sometimes would actually slide down in the bore, allowing the top of the piston, and the rings, to come out of the top of the sleeve, and obviously cause all sorts of damage. The engine would be "blown", and no trips of ANY length would be possible.

I have a VERY early '02 (bought in July of '01), but luckily had no problems with this. I did receive the letter from GM about the possible replacement engine if I had this problem, but there is a time/mileage limit to it.

Hope this helps.

chevy383
01-26-2009, 10:00 PM
Hey Mine in today too... They said that the noise is normal at Start Up. When things are warming up the rockers and lifters make noise. (or something like that). I dunno, maybe the I6 is louder then the V6 or V8 Engines that I have owned... But I swear the damn thing sounds like a diesel when its cold.. :undecidedmine is the same way

standbackimapro
02-03-2009, 10:47 PM
Coastie, the best way to find out whats going on would be to do a leak down test on your engine, you can do it yourself as it is fairly simple. And that would tell you Whats going on. if the leak down test shows no problems, then i wouldnt worry too much about a engine failure

dinkbassr
02-14-2009, 10:19 AM
I also have noticed an engine knock in my 2002 TB/ LTZ with 80k plus miles. My VIN is within the numbers posted on thread #13 but my concern is the 7 years. Is it from date in which the vehicle was titled or production year of the vehocle. I got my vehocle in late Feb of 2002 and don't want to get "stuck" with a bad motor issue if I can prevent it. Do I need to go NOW or do I have until the end of 2009? Any one know???

Greenevo
02-15-2009, 05:44 PM
just a question, i have the I6 in my tb and was wondering i get an intermittent tap in my engine bay. a friend suggested the fan clutch or timing chain( hopefully the first one) but we cant be for certain as its kinda hard to do the screwdriver trick on moving parts. any insight would be appreciated.

dinkbassr
02-15-2009, 10:34 PM
I doubt that it is your fan clutch. That makes a real loud noise like a get engine taking off. IT IS $$$$$$$ to fix as the shop has to take of the grill and the rest of the front of the engine compartment from there back. Is your oil level OK ??

Greenevo
02-16-2009, 08:47 AM
i thought about that but its something external on the front side of the engine bay, that and its not a real fast repetative tap its slower and doesnt happen all the time.

mgmshar
02-20-2009, 07:44 PM
I have spent the last 45 minutes reading this thread. I just bought an '02 Bravada, and my VIN falls in the range that makes my engine suspect for the cracked cylinder bore liner.

If I can summarize this thread, I think it would go like this:

1. If an engine has a cylinder bore liner issue, it will usually result in rapid failure of the engine. There may be a period where the engine makes a loud knocking sound prior to the failure.

2. Some engines from '02 and later years have a "diesel piston croak" when cold. They sound like a bit like a Cummins I-6 until they warm up a little. (I have noticed that mine does this). This is due to incorrect piston-bore clearance while the engine is warming up, and has nothing to do with the cylinder liner issue.

3. Many of these engines make sounds described as "tapping" or "knocking". There appears to be many possible causes of this, including the fan clutch, leaking exhaust manifold gasket, or valvetrain. All of these should probably be ruled-out before suspecting the cylinder liner issue.

I have been an automotive engineer for my entire career. Most of that time I have worked around engines, with my specialty being in valvetrain design. My intuition and experience tells me a few things, I think...

1. If the liner in a cylinder cracks, the rapid load and temperature changes in the cylinder will cause the crack to spread very quickly. Once the cylinder liner starts to move, it will end the engine's life very quickly. So, I suspect that someone who has had a tapping noise for thousands of miles probably doesn't have the cylinder liner problem.

2. I worked at an engine plant for another company (not GM). That plant was one of the first that only bored/honed cylinder blocks to one size, as GM does. I can tell you that piston slap and diesel piston "croaking" were found in some of those engines. I personally drove a vehicle with and engine from that plant, and it had piston slap when warm for its entire life. And yes, I heard it most when I was in the drive-thru at McDonalds. When I first heard the diesel piston croak in my Bravada (only when cold), I immediately remembered those problems at the other company. So, in that respect, the sounds are probably "normal", but certainly not the intent of the engine design.

3. These engines have a Type-2 valvetrain, meaning that each rocker arm ("roller finger follower" in my world) has it's own hydrualic lash adjuster. If the cam is ground correctly, then these types of valvetrains should NEVER make valvetrain tapping noise, with the possible exception of the first few seconds after a cold start. If the valvetrain makes a tapping noise all of the time, something is wrong. The most likely cause is the lash adjuster is not purging air, or is "stuck". Other possible causes are a camshaft that is worn/mis-machined, or a cylinder head that is mis-machined. I attached a picture of the valvetrain below. The hydraulic lash adjuster is the part that serves as the pivot for the rocker arm. It's purpose is to ensure that the bearing in the rocker arm always stays in contact with the cam. Each valve has its own lash adjuster, so they are able to adjust each rocker arm individually.

QUESTION: What is the highest documented mileage where a cylinder liner failure (not speculation, but actual proof of a crack or liner drop) occured? My Bravada has 63,000 miles and is past the 7-yr point, so I am trying to figure out if I should be worried. If these things can go at high mileage, I might buy an extended warranty.

I hope this helps. Thanks in advance for answering the above question.

Mike

ylbill
02-21-2009, 07:18 AM
I was on another thread asking about some problems I've been having with my 02 Bravada. Ticking, knocking from day one (bought in 05 with 54,000 0n it) Someone mentioned the cylinder sleeve problem. My last 8 vin numbers are right in range #22211644. Truck starts, but runs real rough, smells (not like rotten eggs) has some knocking (but always has). SES light comes and goes. Thing is it has 127,000 miles, but saw others had success with new engine. Anyone think this could be the problem with my truck? Any way to know. I put about $400 into it changing plugs because it started out misfiring. Then brought to GM mechanic and he did a leak down test, said cylinder #1 had 20% loss the rest of the cylinders were between 3 and 10%. Said I probably need a valve job. Cleaned cylinder head and fuel bypass. Ran okay for a couple of days aside from slight RPM fluctuation. Runs real rough when I start it now. SES light comes and goes?? People have been saying clean throttle body or coils. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

havn't got to cleaning throttle body (pretty cold around here). Going to try to get at it today.

Greenevo
02-21-2009, 10:36 AM
:weird: so ive still got the problem with a tinking noise from engine bay, friend still thinks its the fan clutch neone else have any ideas? its a slow tink tink tink, its not fast like tinktinktinktink, and it happens intermittently. sometimes it happens when i start it ssometimes it happens 10 miles down the road sometimes right before i go to turn it off. any help would be appreciated.:weird:

KHill
02-21-2009, 11:11 AM
sounds like a coffee-maker?

Greenevo
02-21-2009, 11:45 AM
no a coffee maker is more of a pop, this sounds more like a blacksmith working on a anvil with a peice of metal but alot quieter.:worried:

coolram62
02-25-2009, 04:43 PM
Mgmshar, I recently purchased a '02 Envoy with 67K miles that falls into the VIN breakdown for the "piston-slap" issue. In reading through the entire thread I too was wondering what the highest mileage incident occurence is. I agree on your train of thought on a very good post. My Envoy's noise seem to be upper half ,valvetrain, noise and then only on cold morning start. I've thought of going to 10W30 oil weight since the low teens is about the coldest we see here. I thought also of going to synthetic but am hesitant on a motor with the miles mine has - any thoughts on this?

KHill
02-25-2009, 04:50 PM
search: synthetic