Ethanol/E85 blends

[aucobalt]

Does anyone have experience with running ethanol blends greater than 10% in their TB?

[ilikemy3s]

I am not sure they run that around here so I cant say for sure

[ssilicon]

Do yourself, your TB and your country a favor and try to use 0% ethanol as much as possible.

[jsprewell]

Do yourself, your TB and your country a favor and try to use 0% ethanol as much as possible.

That's a problem for me. Every gas station in my area has the little "Contains up to 10% Ethanol" stickers.

[ssilicon]

Every one has the 10% sticker? How about the premium?

[Spong]

Do yourself, your TB and your country a favor and try to use 0% ethanol as much as possible.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: X 95483574357654764564654343345357989

For now, we still have a choice here in Nebraska. Only the mid grade (89-90 octane) has 10% Ethanol in it. I usually pay the extra $0.05-$0.10 and get the 87 non-ethanol. You get better mpg and it more than makes up the extra $1-$2 you spend per tank.

I was in Minnesota (Socialist State) last week and they've mandated E10 in all grades for 10 years now but most stations will have a Premium pump labeled "Non-Oxygenated" along with a big warning sticker saying it's only for off-road, small engines, classic cars blah blah blah. Well at this particular station the 91 octane non-E10 was only $0.10 more than the 87 E-10!! Guess what I filled up with? :cool:

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta... :woot::hahano:

[opielab]

Do yourself, your TB and your country a favor and try to use 0% ethanol as much as possible.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::thx:thx:thx

Ethanol - and the politicians who supported it disappoint me....

But hey, when you're paying 5 bucks for a gallon of milk - you're TB will be running on inefficient Ethanol!!!!

[marko]

Why do you guys hate e-85 so much?

you do know that when its produced, they only use the starch out of e-85, and they can still pull plenty of protein and nutrients out of it....oh, and corn farms near ethanol plants get more $ per bushel of corn then ones not near a plant....


so why is it that it hurts our economy? Milk is expensive like everything else because gas is expensive and there are other people to blame for that.

from a performance standpoint, if your car is properly tuned for it, you will pick up more power and torque. also properly tuned, you gas mileage wont go down a ton, about 10-15%, and it costs about 15-20% less.

when it was first introduced alot of the oem flex fuel tunes were really bad, and mileage went down 40-50%. thats not the case anymore.

[Envoy Fan]

Why do you guys hate e-85 so much?

you do know that when its produced, they only use the starch out of e-85, and they can still pull plenty of protein and nutrients out of it....oh, and corn farms near ethanol plants get more $ per bushel of corn then ones not near a plant....


so why is it that it hurts our economy? Milk is expensive like everything else because gas is expensive and there are other people to blame for that.

from a performance standpoint, if your car is properly tuned for it, you will pick up more power and torque. also properly tuned, you gas mileage wont go down a ton, about 10-15%, and it costs about 15-20% less.

when it was first introduced alot of the oem flex fuel tunes were really bad, and mileage went down 40-50%. thats not the case anymore.


I hate Ethanol because I can. As far as I am concerned it is a political gimmick. Made a lot of money for some farmers, but due to the spring rains and floods this year a lot of farmers will be severely hurt. The use of corn for ethanol has caused food shortages, and increased the price of anything that has corn in its ingredients. :hissy: You can have all the ethanol for your tank you want, just let me buy 100% gasoline for my vehicles.

[tblazed]

E85 stoichiometric A/F ratio is 9:1

100% gasoline stoichiometric A/F is 14.6:1 (E10 is 14.1:1)

That's 38% more E85 than 100% gasoline (36% more than E10) that has to be sprayed into the combustion chamber by the fuel injectors to reach peak efficiency (stoichiometric).

Even the EPA's own overly optomistic web site lists E85 capable vehicles having 28-30% less MPG than on gasoline. Hardly offsets and savings. And about the "savings", in Oklahoma where some stations sell 100% gasoline, the price is the same or a little less as a station down the street that sells E10.

"In Gas-Powered World, Ethanol Stirs Complaints" NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/26/business/26ethanol.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1217063614-oaFC0wyPFSYQ8033O8s60Q&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

Ever had to drain and clean out water and crud from a steel gas tank brought on by E10? I have. My '88 S10. Not fun.

If they want to have ethanol, build vehicles designed to run on the stuff, not retrofitted gasoline engines. If you run 12:1 or higher compression E85 will work better.

And don't make it out of FOOD. Food prices, because of the diversion of corn into ethanol, were going up a year ago, well before oil hit even $80 a barrel.

[ssilicon]

Why do you guys hate e-85 so much?

you do know that when its produced, they only use the starch out of e-85, and they can still pull plenty of protein and nutrients out of it....oh, and corn farms near ethanol plants get more $ per bushel of corn then ones not near a plant....


so why is it that it hurts our economy? Milk is expensive like everything else because gas is expensive and there are other people to blame for that.

from a performance standpoint, if your car is properly tuned for it, you will pick up more power and torque. also properly tuned, you gas mileage wont go down a ton, about 10-15%, and it costs about 15-20% less.

when it was first introduced alot of the oem flex fuel tunes were really bad, and mileage went down 40-50%. thats not the case anymore.

You asked. Stay tuned for the answer. I am going to reference what I have already written on it.

[ssilicon]

I can't seem to finish "saving" an "edit" so I have to make another post. Check this out:

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?p=574601#post574601

[bentcougar]

i'll stick with my 92 octane:raspberry

[marko]

E85 stoichiometric A/F ratio is 9:1

100% gasoline stoichiometric A/F is 14.6:1 (E10 is 14.1:1)

That's 38% more E85 than 100% gasoline (36% more than E10) that has to be sprayed into the combustion chamber by the fuel injectors to reach peak efficiency (stoichiometric).

Even the EPA's own overly optomistic web site lists E85 capable vehicles having 28-30% less MPG than on gasoline. Hardly offsets and savings. And about the "savings", in Oklahoma where some stations sell 100% gasoline, the price is the same or a little less as a station down the street that sells E10.

"In Gas-Powered World, Ethanol Stirs Complaints" NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/26/business/26ethanol.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1217063614-oaFC0wyPFSYQ8033O8s60Q&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

Ever had to drain and clean out water and crud from a steel gas tank brought on by E10? I have. My '88 S10. Not fun.

If they want to have ethanol, build vehicles designed to run on the stuff, not retrofitted gasoline engines. If you run 12:1 or higher compression E85 will work better.

And don't make it out of FOOD. Food prices, because of the diversion of corn into ethanol, were going up a year ago, well before oil hit even $80 a barrel.



Stoich is 9.7, not 9.0....so that number is 34%, not 38.

It is also 105+ octane, so you can run much more timing, and leaner at cruise. that is how you can manage only 15% less fuel economy, of course that number gets smaller with higher compression.

Like i said, when it first came out, the tunes were lame and they got very bad bas mileage.

oh and around here, 100% gas isn't really available. there are only a few stations, and are VERY spread apart, usually in the middle of no where. so for alot of people, its between E10 and E85.

cars in 1988 were not designed to run off ethanol blends. they are now. e85 does attract water, it also absorbs it. similiar to "ISO heat" that alot of people put in there tanks to prevent freeze up's in the winter.


price of food....i dunno, i just bought 40 piece's of corn on the cob for $4. sure jacked up the price of that :P

[marko]

i'll stick with my 92 octane:raspberry

I'll stick with 105 octane, for $2.94 a gallon presently.....vs $3.89 for 92 octane


thats approx 25% savings.... i get about 15% worse mileage, and with a tune to take advantage of 105 octane, more powa.

[Envoy Fan]

price of food....i dunno, i just bought 40 piece's of corn on the cob for $4. sure jacked up the price of that :P

Sweet corn in the stores here, and at some of the truck farms in the area is .50 per ear. $6.00 a dozen. At that price I'll let them keep it.

[tblazed]

Stoich is 9.7, not 9.0....so that number is 34%, not 38.

Yep that's correct. I think I was thinking 100% ethanol... 100% gasoline is also 14.7:1, my error again. That would make it 34%.

It's too bad GM scrapped Saab's variable compression engine back in 2000, it would run up to 15:1. In markets like Brazil woulda made sense. Maybe here now, too.

oh and around here, 100% gas isn't really available. there are only a few stations, and are VERY spread apart, usually in the middle of no where. so for alot of people, its between E10 and E85.


I wouldn't have near the objection to it if 100% gasoline was available even at a higher price for my '88 and my lawn equipment, power washer, & emergency power generator. I can't find non-ethanol laced, 100% gas here either. Have to drive to Oklahoma to get it.


cars in 1988 were not designed to run off ethanol blends. they are now. e85 does attract water, it also absorbs it. similiar to "ISO heat" that alot of people put in there tanks to prevent freeze up's in the winter.

I thought that was Methanol used as a gas dryer.. or even isopropyl works pretty well. I used to work at an electronics parts manufacturer that used gallons of anhydrous isopropyl, and we would carry the gallons home after the one time final rinse use, and use it in our gasoline- in 1974-75! Back in the Arab Embargo days...


price of food....i dunno, i just bought 40 piece's of corn on the cob for $4. sure jacked up the price of that :P

Have not seen corn cheap here in the DFW area this year at all. In fact there was none in any grocery stores for 3 weeks until some "Olathe Sweet" finally showed up at Kroger last week, 3/$1. In the past they would have run that corn for 10 / $1! And the price of a lb. of cheese... WOW! from $1.97 a little over a year ago, to $4.88 this weekend.. they can keep it for that price!

[marko]

The price of cheese is dumb...and i like nacho's

I'm not trying to start an argument, rather a discussion as im curious why so many people are anti E85. It's funny because you have those people, and the people that are into modifying cars (esp forced induction) that see it as the cats meow of gas (105 octane, much colder charge...similiar to leaded race fuel without the negative effects :) )

[Super 88]

The price of cheese is dumb...and i like nacho's

I'm not trying to start an argument, rather a discussion as im curious why so many people are anti E85. It's funny because you have those people, and the people that are into modifying cars (esp forced induction) that see it as the cats meow of gas (105 octane, much colder charge...similiar to leaded race fuel without the negative effects :) )

Quite simple, really. Many of us are not into "modifying cars" just driving our vehicles to/from work, picking up kids, etc.

I personally don't think E85 is worth it. It may be slightly less in price but you still get considerably less MPG. So how is there any benefit to anyone - except maybe the farmers?

For example, if you go to the EPA fuel mileage web site - A 2005 Tahoe with a 5.3 V8 with the flex fuel. On gasoline the estimate is 14 city, 18 freeway. On E85 city is 10, 14 freeway. For City driving that is a 28.6 percent difference. Might as well say 30 percent.

As for gasoline with ethanol - I have driven many 100's of thousands of miles over the past 4 - 5 decades. In one of my vehicles from the mid 90's I drove it from the west coast to the Midwest and then to Florida a few years ago. I can tell you time after time - in states that had ethanol in their gas I got about 1 - 2 MPG less than if it was 100 percent gasoline.

[Jays06GmcEnvoy]

As a current tb owner and also a gas station owner I can say that ethanol does kill gas mileage I have a sunoco and a bp station and i fill up from both and I know sunoco puts more ethanol in their gas and you could tell I went up north once and actually had to stop and put gas and I stopped at a shell and filled up, well shell i think hasnt switched over into using an ethanol blend and you can really tell the difference I got better gas mileage not much but better then usual

[Spong]

If you have a vehicle that's purpose built to run E85 then that's a whole other monster from a "Flex" fuel vehicle.

I've read in different car magazines about people building drag cars etc that run on E85. That's great because you can tune to the computer to run ONLY E85. In the real world, that doesn't work.

I agree that Ethanol is nothing more than a political gimmick. When you look at the land, fuel, water etc required to make it, it doesn't make any sense. If the sh*t wasn't heavily subsidized by the taxpayers, it would never fly.

Luckily here in the NE/IA area we still have a choice. I can spend $0.05-$0.10 more for 87 octane "regular" gas without any Ethanol. When I drive up to MN where E10 is mandatory in all grades, then I break the law up purchase the "Off Road Only" fuel which is simply premium w/o any ethanol. When I was up there in early July, the 92 Octane "Off Road" gas was only $0.10 more than the E10 87 octane.
Needless to say, it was a No brainer for me. Fock their warning stickers on the pump. :tiphat

[caboose1]

Does anyone have experience with running ethanol blends greater than 10% in their TB?

So I read your thread when you first posted it and I finally figured that I would be the brave soul to try out e85. A gas station across from my dorm sells e85 for around 65 cents cheaper than regular so i figured why not. I started out with a half tank of e85 and half regular and the only thing I noticed was that the engine had a little more git up and go. Last week I drove the tank almost empty and filled up with e85. It seemed as soon as the e85 hit the engine, the check engine light came on, don't have a scanner so i don't know what code it is, but the only thing I noticed perfomance wise is that the engines idle kicked up to close to 800 rpm, but has more power and I drove 200 miles on e85 with no problems and only a little less fuel economy. As soon as i put regular gas in it the engine light goes right back off again...hope this helps you and anyone else out there who wants to use ethanol.

[Spong]

caboose- Did you know this year they started putting E10 in all gas in MO without telling anyone? They also don't require the pumps to be labeled.

[caboose1]

Hey Spong, I actually did a lot of reading into the whole ethanol deal just to see what I was getting into and If I don't get E85, I always go to the local Casey's to get E10 marked as Premium Unleaded for the same price as regular...always have since I got my Trailblazer this past January. And I do also know that the pumps used to be labeled, but I believe it was back in March or April or something like that that all the labels vanished...doesn't bother me though, because now I can go to any gas station to get at least E10.....ITS WONDERFUL. On the other had, my parents have a lake house in Oklahoma and all the gas stations there say "NO ETHANOL/ 100% GAS"...I find this disturbing thats some states like Oklahoma and the Nebraska and Iowa are have no regard for energy security, clean air, and keeping jobs and much needed capital inside the US....crazy huh:)

[Spong]

:rotfl:

I on the other hand will drive out of my way to buy gas at those stations with the signs reading "100% gas" because ethanol is a huge scam and I refuse to support it.

I used to enjoy buying gas in MO because I didn't have to worry about Ethacrap in it. Luckily in NE and IA we still have a choice. I always pay the extra $0.10 for the regular 87 pure gas (mid grade E10 is always the cheapest)

Forcing people to use a product that drives up corn prices and drops MPG is not a good thing. Ethanol is a losing deal because w/o heavy subsidies it would cost way too much to produce. I love it when I see these BS signs like in MO calling corn fields "oil fields" :rolleyes: I guess those people think corn just turns into gas automatically and doesn't require a huge amount of oil and water to produce it.

Using domestic oil not corn is how we achieve energy security. It doesn't matter how much corn we plant if we require foreign oil to harvest it!

One more thing, the reason why you see signs around lakes advertising no ethanol is because it ruins boats. I've read stories online in the Ozarks about boat owners having tons of problems because of the E10 that was snuck into the gas. This is why when you go to Ethanol forcing states like MN most gas stations will have a premium pump with pure gas. The pump is covered with stickers for "Off Road, Small engines, classic cars and Boats only" I usually put it in my Trailblazer though as my little F U to the ethanol people. :)

[Robert1101]

So I read your thread when you first posted it and I finally figured that I would be the brave soul to try out e85. A gas station across from my dorm sells e85 for around 65 cents cheaper than regular so i figured why not. I started out with a half tank of e85 and half regular and the only thing I noticed was that the engine had a little more git up and go. Last week I drove the tank almost empty and filled up with e85. It seemed as soon as the e85 hit the engine, the check engine light came on, don't have a scanner so i don't know what code it is, but the only thing I noticed perfomance wise is that the engines idle kicked up to close to 800 rpm, but has more power and I drove 200 miles on e85 with no problems and only a little less fuel economy. As soon as i put regular gas in it the engine light goes right back off again...hope this helps you and anyone else out there who wants to use ethanol.

Hey there. Does your TB say flex fuel or E85 in the manual? You list the TB as a 2002 and if it is not made for E85 you might have a LOT of problems soon. :(

[caboose1]

:rotfl:

I on the other hand will drive out of my way to buy gas at those stations with the signs reading "100% gas" because ethanol is a huge scam and I refuse to support it.

I used to enjoy buying gas in MO because I didn't have to worry about Ethacrap in it. Luckily in NE and IA we still have a choice. I always pay the extra $0.10 for the regular 87 pure gas (mid grade E10 is always the cheapest)

Forcing people to use a product that drives up corn prices and drops MPG is not a good thing. Ethanol is a losing deal because w/o heavy subsidies it would cost way too much to produce. I love it when I see these BS signs like in MO calling corn fields "oil fields" :rolleyes: I guess those people think corn just turns into gas automatically and doesn't require a huge amount of oil and water to produce it.

Using domestic oil not corn is how we achieve energy security. It doesn't matter how much corn we plant if we require foreign oil to harvest it!

One more thing, the reason why you see signs around lakes advertising no ethanol is because it ruins boats. I've read stories online in the Ozarks about boat owners having tons of problems because of the E10 that was snuck into the gas. This is why when you go to Ethanol forcing states like MN most gas stations will have a premium pump with pure gas. The pump is covered with stickers for "Off Road, Small engines, classic cars and Boats only" I usually put it in my Trailblazer though as my little F U to the ethanol people. :)

Well, im sure we can agree to disagree lol about the energy ratios and blah blah blah, but one thing I would like to point out is that ethanol is bad for old boats made in or earlier than the 80's because they have fiberglass tanks...can't really get around that, but ethanol is bad for boats at first because gasoline leaves behind so much crap and crud and deposits and paraffins that the ethanol cleans out of the fuel systems...mostly because ethanol is clean and cleans away the crap that gasoline leaves behind.

[Spong]

Hey there. Does your TB say flex fuel or E85 in the manual? You list the TB as a 2002 and if it is not made for E85 you might have a LOT of problems soon. :(

:iagree: E85 is highly corrosive. One time probably wouldn't hurt but if you keep doing it you're asking for problems.

Well, im sure we can agree to disagree lol about the energy ratios and blah blah blah, but one thing I would like to point out is that ethanol is bad for old boats made in or earlier than the 80's because they have fiberglass tanks...can't really get around that, but ethanol is bad for boats at first because gasoline leaves behind so much crap and crud and deposits and paraffins that the ethanol cleans out of the fuel systems...mostly because ethanol is clean and cleans away the crap that gasoline leaves behind.

Ethanol isn't just bad for older boats. People with new boats have problems too. I'm a member of a couple boating forums and I've been reading about it. They say on newer boat's it's ok to use if you run it through and don't let it sit in the tank. Fuel separation is talked about and that it eats many components in the fuel system.

[caboose1]

Hey there. Does your TB say flex fuel or E85 in the manual? You list the TB as a 2002 and if it is not made for E85 you might have a LOT of problems soon. :(

hey robert, and spong,

None of the trailblazers are flex fuel capable or anything like that, but this is my reasoning behind using e85 in it. One is that all cars have been proven to take e10. Two, Wisconsin I believe proved all cars can take e20 no problem, ethanol is not corrosive neither does it have corrosive properties, actually its recommended (and I did) to change your fuel filter after a few tanks of ethanol if you've never used it before because the ethanol will dissolve harmful deposits left by petroleum gasoline and clean out your fuel system. I don't forsee any problems in the future because cars made after the 70's are made for some oxygenated additive like mtbe or ethanol.

[caboose1]

:iagree: E85 is highly corrosive. One time probably wouldn't hurt but if you keep doing it you're asking for problems.



Ethanol isn't just bad for older boats. People with new boats have problems too. I'm a member of a couple boating forums and I've been reading about it. They say on newer boat's it's ok to use if you run it through and don't let it sit in the tank. Fuel separation is talked about and that it eats many components in the fuel system.

You can be apart of every boater forum you want to, but my family has a 30ft Maxum Suncruiser with twin 350's and its a 2000...100% gas yet gone through one gummed up carb and a fuel pump this year, on the other hand, our 2001 Seadoo GTI with the 717 Rotax engine which has been filled up with 10% ethanol for at least a year now has no problems at all...and its a 2-stroke and yes we almost always leave gas in it. I will agree that ethanol CAN attract water which will seperate anything with a petroleum product in it, but its the water that kills the fuel system, not the ethanol.

[Spong]

hey robert, and spong,

None of the trailblazers are flex fuel capable or anything like that, but this is my reasoning behind using e85 in it. One is that all cars have been proven to take e10. Two, Wisconsin I believe proved all cars can take e20 no problem, ethanol is not corrosive neither does it have corrosive properties, actually its recommended (and I did) to change your fuel filter after a few tanks of ethanol if you've never used it before because the ethanol will dissolve harmful deposits left by petroleum gasoline and clean out your fuel system. I don't forsee any problems in the future because cars made after the 70's are made for some oxygenated additive like mtbe or ethanol.

I don't know who's feeding you this BS but Ethanol IS CORROSIVE! If you're using good gasoline then buildup shouldn't be a problem.

E10 not only drops MPG in every vehicle I've used it in but I've had more than one NEW Gm vehicle that developed rough idle and hard starting uses after running E10 all the time. Big surprise, starting using only non-E10 fuel and all problems went away!

I encourage you to put E85 in your TB all the time and see what happens.

You can be apart of every boater forum you want to, but my family has a 30ft Maxum Suncruiser with twin 350's and its a 2000...100% gas yet gone through one gummed up carb and a fuel pump this year, on the other hand, our 2001 Seadoo GTI with the 717 Rotax engine which has been filled up with 10% ethanol for at least a year now has no problems at all...and its a 2-stroke and yes we almost always leave gas in it. I will agree that ethanol CAN attract water which will seperate anything with a petroleum product in it, but its the water that kills the fuel system, not the ethanol.

I too have boats in my family but we haven't any fuel related problems ever because we NEVER put ethanol in them!

Just because you haven't had problems YET doesn't mean you won't ever. If I mixed diesel fuel in my tank once and it didn't blow up doesn't mean I should do it all the time! I'm not talking about water hurting the fuel system, I'm talking about parts being damaged.

I've personally had enough run ins with Ethanol (keep in mind we've had it here since the early 90's unlike MO) that I've learned my lesson.

Do a search on the internet for Ethanol related fuel problems and you'll find lots of reading!

[Spong]

Found this website and they say Ethanol won't hurt anything but they are also promiting E85 kits so I doubt they would talk much about the downsides of Ethanol

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths

[vizsla1822]

All grades of gas in Missouri contain 10% ethanol per mandate from the state government. In others words, the politicans sold out to the farm lobby. My truck has a 93 octane tune and I get about 1 mpg better using Shell 93 octane rather than Mobil or BP 93 octane.

Vizsla1822
red jewel tintcoat SS

[Spong]

All grades of gas in Missouri contain 10% ethanol per mandate from the state government. In others words, the politicans sold out to the farm lobby. My truck has a 93 octane tune and I get about 1 mpg better using Shell 93 octane rather than Mobil or BP 93 octane.

Vizsla1822
red jewel tintcoat SS


Don't get me wrong, I'd rather see money go into farmer's pockets than to some raghead overseas. When Ethanol gets to the point where it's made from something other than corn, which requires large amounts of land and water, then I will probably support it. I just can't support it right now and I don't like being forced to use it.

[vizsla1822]

The rule of thumb is ethanol getting about 30% mpg less than gasoline so to make it cost effective; it should cost 30% less than gasoline or so. It doesn't, the Phillips station here locally had gas this past weekend at $2.199 for 87 octane and $1.899 for E85. The can manufacture E85 from just about anything from sugar cane, swithgrass to algae. So, it's just not a food source product.

Vizsla1822
red jewel tintcoat SS

[fife2001]

All grades of gas in Missouri contain 10% ethanol per mandate from the state government. In others words, the politicans sold out to the farm lobby. My truck has a 93 octane tune and I get about 1 mpg better using Shell 93 octane rather than Mobil or BP 93 octane.

Vizsla1822
red jewel tintcoat SS

Really? Then Missouri does not have the nice little sticker on the pump like they do in Nebraska. I usually fill up at the Love's in St. Joe when I am driving to somewhere in Missouri.

[Spong]

The rule of thumb is ethanol getting about 30% mpg less than gasoline so to make it cost effective; it should cost 30% less than gasoline or so. It doesn't, the Phillips station here locally had gas this past weekend at $2.199 for 87 octane and $1.899 for E85. The can manufacture E85 from just about anything from sugar cane, swithgrass to algae. So, it's just not a food source product.

Vizsla1822
red jewel tintcoat SS

E10 is closer to a 10% +/- mpg drop. I've always seen around 2mpg with E10 in every vehicle. If E10 takes me from 17 mpg to 15 mpg that's almost 12% drop. 2 mpg isn't huge but if you're driving 15k miles a year it adds up!

E85 is closer to that 30% on a flex fuel vehicle. That number changes depending on who writes the story of course. IMO, E85 needs to be at least $1 cheaper to be worth using.

I'm reading more about people building racing cars to use E85 only because it has high octane like race gas. Problem is, if you're set up only for E85 you're limited to where you can drive if it's a street vehicle.

My biggest gripe with Ethanol will always be those who think it replaces foreign oil. That is just a huge lie because like I've already said, the corn doesn't plant or harvest itself.

[Robert1101]

Chevron's website has this to say about E85:
These blends may be 10 percent ethanol (E10) or less and can be readily burned in standard automobile engines. Higher concentrations, such as E85, are officially classified as alternative fuels and can be used only in specially designed engines.
http://www.chevron.com/deliveringenergy/biofuels/ethanol/
There is a lot of items in a non flex fuel vehicle that the ethanol will attack and corrode. You burn what you want, but be forwarned. :(:(:(
Just my :m2:

[Robert1101]

Found this website and they say Ethanol won't hurt anything but they are also promiting E85 kits so I doubt they would talk much about the downsides of Ethanol

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths
This website says one tank will not hurt, but a diet of E85 will.
Quote:
One tank won’t hurt. Some dealers are spreading rumors and charging $300-$3000 for one tank of accidental E85 use. This use may cause misfiring and a rough ride. Your check engine light will come on. If you should accidentally or on purpose put E85 in your vehicle, drain the tank, put in regular gas and all will be well. If you use E85 without a conversion kit or non-Flex Fuel capable vehicle for an extended period, you can damage your engine.
They want $250+ for the "KIT"
Bottom line is buyer beware of E85

Im off my soap box.
:m2: