Anyone have a DIY Transfer Case writeup

[speedy3k]

I think my transfer case has gone out. The stealership claims that it will be a 2k job to have them do it. I feel like I can handle the job myself if I can find a good write up.

Thanks,

[the roadie]

Best writeup is in the $120 factory service manual - buy it from Helm Inc.

Haynes also has a manual, but it may not be detailed enough for that job.

Nothing we can possibly write on a forum here will be a good as those two resources.

Wow. Haven't checked Ebay prices lately - they've come way down, it seems. Transfer cases are going for $200-500. I should pick up a spare. :thumbsup:

[speedy3k]

Here is my problem, and it just started yesterday. there seems to be little info on it, but I think its a fried transfer case, but would like more feedback.

2wd works fine.
4hi seems to engage and work
4lo seems to engage and work

HOWEVER
a4wd acts stupid. , I get a high whining sound, the car jerks and feels like a hard shift and a clank type noise from the front of the car. It will do this a few times while just driving until i come to a stop. When coming to a stop, I get another clank and a quick jerk.

Thoughts?

[the roadie]

Since A4WD mode depends on the control module commanding the encoder motor to move the transfer case clutch engagement lever to move the clutch plates closer together as needed to reduce driveshaft slippage as detected by shaft sensors on the front and rear of the transfer case - I'd say you have a way to go before declaring it to be a fried transfer case. :undecided

Depending on the mileage and if you've ever changed the transfer case fluid, it could be something simpler. Have you checked the fluid quality and quantity yet?

Did you pay the dealer to diagnose it in the shop before they guessed $2K, or did they just guess over the phone from your description?

Any flashing lights or dashboard warnings?

[speedy3k]

it was a guess over the phone. no warning lights or anything like that. it has 70k miles and the fluids were last changed 30k ago. I was actually going to have it all changed this week until this came up.

[Robert1101]

You or someone else changed your T-case fluid @ 40K? What was put in?

[speedy3k]

You or someone else changed your T-case fluid @ 40K? What was put in?

I had the dealership change it.

[brendanpower]

I agree with Roadie. Keep looking before you declare this T-case a write off. If the T-case were toast, you would have lost 4HIGH and 4LOW. It would most likely be in the activation of 4WD when its set to auto.

[speedy3k]

I just figured it would be faster and cheaper to just replace the whole thing if I could do it myself, instead of paying the dealer the diag fees, labor, etc.. I guess i'll bite the bullet and take it in this week.

[91RS]

Why don't you take it to the dealer and get it properly diagnosed? I doubt the transfer case is actually gone.

[the roadie]

The dealer could use the tech tool to command the encoder motor through small movement, to confirm if the TC clutch plates are grabby. Grabby plates might explain your symptoms. So would partially disintegrated plates that can't engage smoothly, but when commanded to go to full torque transfer in 4HI or 4LO modes, they stick just fine and don't slip.

Draining the fluid might be a good diagnostic also.

Depends entirely on how much the dealer would charge for an external diagnosis without tearing it down, and your need or lack of need for the vehicle as a daily driver, and what alternative transportation would cost you.

You could spend $500 getting a recycled transfer case, spend a week putting it in, and find out your problem was the encoder motor. We'd hate to encourage you to do the wrong thing by failing to point out the alternatives. That's our nature in trailvoy. :thumbsup:

This vehicle's design is to tightly integrated and electronically controlled that it's not like a 1998 vintage vehicle, where the problem could be entirely contained in one component, like the TC. That's the message. The dealer's diagnosis may be money well spent, depending also on how competent and honest they are. What's their reputation and your relationship with them?

[speedy3k]

Took it to the dealer...and they said they thing its a bad seal and want to replace the seal and fluids. we'll find out this afternoon if that works. I'm not too confident the problems I'm having is due to a leaking seal.

[the roadie]

Depends on how low the fluid level was when they first looked. Low fluid could cause grabby clutches.

[speedy3k]

Depends on how low the fluid level was when they first looked. Low fluid could cause grabby clutches.

it looks like I'm going to take it to another dealer. I don't think they know what they were doing or talking about. They tried to tell me that the reason for the "bump and thud" I felt was due to bad front and rear links. I asked them why is it my problem only happens in a4wd, they couldn't answer. I then asked what the fluid levels were in the transfer case, and they couldn't answer. I asked if the tccm was up to date, and they couldn't answer.

I think all they did was lift the truck up... saw some fluid around a seal, and decided that was the problem. I told them I didn't agree with their diagnosis, and their reply was that I was welcome to get another opinion. so now I'm out 80 bucks and have nothing to show for it.

[the roadie]

$80 isn't really wasted if it told you they were incompetent boobs before you spent $2K!

I'm sure you remember when I wrote: The dealer's diagnosis may be money well spent, depending also on how competent and honest they are. What's their reputation and your relationship with them?

[speedy3k]

$80 isn't really wasted if it told you they were incompetent boobs before you spent $2K!

I'm sure you remember when I wrote: The dealer's diagnosis may be money well spent, depending also on how competent and honest they are. What's their reputation and your relationship with them?


good point!

[the roadie]

I would dispute the $80 and escalate it to GM as well, but then I don't tolerate asshats quietly.

[speedy3k]

stealership #2 is now quoting 3300.00 bucks for repairs.

nice

I'm 10k miles out of the original power train warranty. GM didn't offer the 100K mile warranty when I bought mine, even though my car was a certified used gm car. a car with 70k miles shouldn't have this kind of problem.

After this, I'll never buy another GM. I liked the trailblazer, but after all the small issues, and now this...its no wonder GM is on the verge of bankruptcy.

[bartonmd]

stealership #2 is now quoting 3300.00 bucks for repairs.

nice

I'm 10k miles out of the original power train warranty. GM didn't offer the 100K mile warranty when I bought mine, even though my car was a certified used gm car. a car with 70k miles shouldn't have this kind of problem.

After this, I'll never buy another GM. I liked the trailblazer, but after all the small issues, and now this...its no wonder GM is on the verge of bankruptcy.

GM is on the verge of bankruptcy because they have 2x more inflated salaries in retirement than they do working...

Check the fluid. What does it look like? Can you feel it by sticking your finger in the fill hole? If not, it's probably low, and will cause the grabby clutches...

Mike

[speedy3k]

GM is on the verge of bankruptcy because they have 2x more inflated salaries in retirement than they do working...

Check the fluid. What does it look like? Can you feel it by sticking your finger in the fill hole? If not, it's probably low, and will cause the grabby clutches...

Mike

this dealer said its the front differential that needs to be replaced and not the t-case, which doesn't make much sense to me since the problem only happens in a4wd and in no other mode.

there goes another 150 bucks out the window, and I still have a broken truck.

[91RS]

Personally, I say you should tell them exactly what you think. Tell them you don't think what they're telling you is correct and ask what happens if you pay them for the front diff work and the problem still exists. Of course, depending on how much of an ass the person you're talking to is they could tell you if you don't "trust" them then you can take your truck elsewhere. Then you could tell them that you didn't take it elsewhere you took it to them and you just want your truck fixed. Just tell them you want information, have the tech come explain to you why that's what's wrong with you're truck.

[the roadie]

My goodness. Two crooked or incompetent dealers in the same town. What is the world coming to?

Got any trustworthy independent GM specialists or 4WD shops?

Or back to your first post - buy the factory shop manual for $120, a used transfer case, and do it yourself. After you check the fluid level which you should have done on day 1.

Another $150, you say, to get an obviously bad diagnosis - and I repeat: I would dispute the $150 and escalate it to GM as well, but then I don't tolerate asshats quietly.

Sorry it's costing you money, but you have the perfect opportunity for a in-depth conversation BEFORE you pay the bill. Why do you keep letting them lie to you? I don't get it.

[91RS]

I think part of the problem is how he is referring to the dealership as the stealership. He's just assuming they're out to screw him and not bothering to find out why they're saying what they're saying because he automatically thinks they're wrong. I would be inclined to say the first dealership was incorrect, but the second one could have something. The OP says 4HI and 4LO seem to engauge and work, but without any of us actually being there who knows, it may not be working. If there's something broken in the front diff, then it could cause problems he's having in A4WD. Judging by what he's saying about the dealer wanting to replace the front diff instead of rebuilding it, I could imagine there's some serious damage to the front diff.

I think part of the problem is that we're not getting all of the story and/or the OP isn't asking the right questions at the dealer. As you were letting the guy in JD's lift thread know, there's poor punctuation and sentence structure here so I'm not really sure we're understanding what's really going on.

[markarock]

:iagree:

GIGO

Mark

[speedy3k]

I never claimed to be an english major! I tend to type even more poorly when I'm upset.

When I went to dealer 1, I did argue my point. I expressed dissatisfaction, and asked to speak with the tech. The tech that looked at my truck was not available.

When I went to dealer 2, I was more shocked by the quote than anything. I asked to speak to the tech, but that person had already left for the day. This person did leave some notes stating they open the front differential noted damage.

I'm more inclined to believe dealer #2 because they have a good rep in town. I live in Nashville, TN which isn't a small city, and we have a ton of chevy dealers. I believe they may be correct that there is some damage to the front differential. I'm just not sold that its the main problem. But I'm not GM expert..which is why I took it to the dealer.
I also tried calling GM to escalate my dissatisfaction. Needless to say, everyone I spoke with didn't seem very helpful. And yes, I was very polite when I was speaking with everyone I came in contact with.

I guess I'm going to purchase the manual and replace the front differential. If that doesn't fix my problem, I'll replace the transfer case.

Does anyone know the part numbers for the two parts?

[91RS]

Honestly, if you're going to get the diff done I would get that done at the dealer. It's not fun to remove the front diff on a full size truck and on these trucks the front diff goes through the oil pan. Plus, from the dealer you'll get a 12 month 12k warranty to go with it.

[speedy3k]

Honestly, if you're going to get the diff done I would get that done at the dealer. It's not fun to remove the front diff on a full size truck and on these trucks the front diff goes through the oil pan. Plus, from the dealer you'll get a 12 month 12k warranty to go with it.

I'm not going to pay 3300 bucks for this type of repair. I used to be a helicopter mech before changing careers 10 years ago. I think with a good manual I can handle the task.

[markarock]

Just a couple more observations.

First, the notes supposedly said that the front differential was opened up and damage noted. Hmmm. Now it's been a while since I was under there, but I sure don't recall a way to open the front differential. Maybe I'm mistaken, and there is a differential cover as in the back, but I sure don't recall one.

Now if they charged you $120, maybe they did pull an axle to peer inside. Possible. Or maybe they pulled something else, like the fill plug, or maybe something else. I'd sure like to know more about what they did and what they saw before I decided to embark on a day-long job (the minimum if everything goes right!) to replace the front diff.

Related is your observation that it only happens in A4WD, and your perplexity that the front diff can be bad without any symptoms in 4HI or 4LO. I have the same question. How can that be? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Mark

[bartonmd]

I agree... AFAIK, the only way to look into the front diff is to take the thing out, and split it down the middle, as there is no real "inspection cover" like the rear diff...

Again, how does your T-case fluid look, and how much is in it?

Mike

[the roadie]

A fiber optic borescope could look in the fill plug opening. I've been considering buying one since they just got cheaper nowadays. (like $200 cheap instead of $5000.) But if the dealer lied and said they "opened" the front diff instead of "looked in the fill plug", how much can you trust them anyway?

Ebay auction 270295254765 is a 2004 service manual set for $89. Somebody should jump on this ASAP! Haynes manuals are going for $18-25.

[speedy3k]

Needless to say, I've lost all confidence in GM and their dealers. They could be right, and I could be wrong. The whole thing has been very frustrating.

After doing some research, I've found some post where there have been problems with the front diff. I've also read some post that talk about bad t-cases. Knowing my luck, both are probably bad on my tv.

After the 2nd dealer said it was the front diff...I drove it a few blocks with 4hi engaged. I could hear a whine..almost a roar coming from the front. That's something I didn't notice ( probably due to having the radio on or just not listening for it.) However, in 4hi, it drove fine and smooth...unlike when its in a4wd. when its in a4wd, again, it feels like I'm driving over small speed bumps, and when I come to a stop it "clunks".

damn truck!

[pjaneiro]

My goodness. Two crooked or incompetent dealers in the same town. What is the world coming to?




LOL come to montreal.....they're ALL crooked...not one i've seen so far was legit or had any decent mechanic....


i'm also barred from going there now...says so in teh computer i think...lool

[markarock]

Bill:

Ebay auction 270295254765 is a 2004 service manual set for $89. Somebody should jump on this ASAP!

Got 'em. :thx

Mine's an '03, but an '04 set will do me just fine, thank you. Other sets I've seen were well over $100, so this was a good price.

Mark

[pjaneiro]

Bill:



Got 'em. :thx

Mine's an '03, but an '04 set will do me just fine, thank you. Other sets I've seen were well over $100, so this was a good price.

Mark

becarefull electrical has changed between 2002-2003 and 2004

2004and 2005 remained the same

2006 also changed

2007-2008 same

[markarock]

Urk! :duh:

Anybody interested in an 04 set? :)

[the roadie]

I thought I was being obvious, but apparently my subtlety was too subtle. :hopeless

speedy3k has an '04 and HE needs the manual more than anybody else. Come on, let the OP get a shot at fixing his truck.

[pjaneiro]

Heck, if I WERE anywhere near TN i would do it in exchange of having a visit at the Jack daniels plant.....Anyhow. i might of found a pdf version of it....just waiting for the damn d/l to finnish..

[neelskit]

...Anyhow. i might of found a pdf version of it....just waiting for the damn d/l to finnish..

Really... Would you mind sharing that PDF copy? :D

[rk7437]

While I would agree that troubleshooting TB's with potential sensor and or mechanical issues can be much more difficult & time consuming than swapping an entire drivetrain on old Blazer, I DO believe that you should take your concerns not to the tech, but rather to the service manager. Explain to him/her what you have read on this and other threads & ask him/her to explain their findings in detail. You already paid the money, they need to be able to give you a more descriptive answer than "we think it is..." before you shell out another nickel!!! With the economy as it is now, they should be happy to explain how EVERY sensor works to get a job for $3k!!! Just remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Hope it works for you!

Rob