Camshaft blanks 4200

[efi-diy]

Camshaft blanks group buy - the wait is over

As many of you know there are no commercially available camshafts for the 4200, the main reason is GM never released cam blanks with round lobes to allow performance cams to be made.

Last year I designed and had a limited number (3 sets) of camshaft blanks made, 2 of the 3 sets were turned into camshafts and installed into 4200 engines.

Shown below is what the prototype cam blanks looked like after copper plating shown beside a set of stock 2006 cams ( needed for the grind process).
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2301/vorteccams6ct6.jpg
By efi_diy (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/efi_diy), shot with DMC-LZ2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DMC-LZ2&make=Panasonic) at 2008-01-16


Comp Cams ground this set of cams using the prototype blanks shown above:

exhaust cam shown

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/194/p9180495jb0.jpg
By efi_diy (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/efi_diy), shot with u710,S710 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u710%2CS710&make=OLYMPUS+IMAGING+CORP) at 2008-09-18

The new cam blanks will be CNC machined from 8620 billet steel. They need to made into camshafts by a camshaft manufacture - we recommend Comp Cams.

I have attached a CAD model dump of the intake and exhaust cams. The exhaust cam has the variable valve timing passages machined in. Both cams have a hex machined to allow easy rotation during installation and alignment flats like the OEM cams.

I am opening a group buy for cam blanks today that will remain open for 4 weeks. To make this affordable as possible and to cover setup/programming charges we need a minimum of 10 people to commit. If we do not get 10 people then your money will be returned.

So the cost for 1 set of cam blanks with un-ground cam lobes (one intake cam blank and 1 exhaust cam blank) not including shipping with 10 people participating is:

US$ 570.00

Payment is by US$ money order cashable outside the USA. I asking for 100% payment less shipping up front to ensure no one backs out and leaves the others in a lurch.

Your money orders will not be cashed until we have enough people to proceed. They will be held in a safety deposit box until they are cashed.

Included with your cam blanks will be a contact at Comp cams for you to arrange to have your blanks turned into finished camshafts. The cost of finishing the cams is above and beyond the cost of the blanks. Comp is charging US$250 per camshaft for custom grinds. I am working with them to see if we can get a group price.


Within 2 weeks I will have a web page up to support the buy.

If you decide to participate PM for details where to send payment. Also please add your name on this forum.

Thanks

Marc

PS: if we get 20 people to commit there is a significant cost savings! The cost drops to US$400/set. For a comparison a set of cams for the Ford SOHC mod motor is close to $700 for a commercially available pair of cams. So for a full custom set $900 is not far off.

[ScarabEpic22]

OK guys, honestly this is going to be the next power adder we have for our trucks. The 02-05 guy can adjust the P10 for the added airflow and change the spark tables, so this is something that CAN be done in terms of performance. All you guys wanting turbos and superchargers, this is the thing you WANT NOW for that power boost. Yes its not the 100+ hp/tq a turbo gets you, but its honest driveable power that can be tune on an 02-05. If I had the 1000 bucks and knew I was keeping my 02 I6 Id be all over this, unfortunately my 02 will be sold by Christmas probably and Im going to invest my money into my SS.

If anyone has questions about this, please PM me or efi-diy (Marc). He worked his ass off getting this deal set up, everyone always screams the I6 has no aftermarket, well here's your chance to have one of the first cam'ed I6s out there.

[efi-diy]

www.emtechmotorsports.com/index

[MikeyDizzle]

Then count me in.


MikeyDizzle



Now all we need is to get that damn header group buy going....

[Grr]

man ive been waiting for you to do this a while, but i dont want to spend the money on it at the moment. I will be interested in it sometime next year though

[BUC NASTY]

i would love to purchase unless the values and springs are included...dont want to go through the hassle of finding the values and springs.

[efi-diy]

Some one asked what grinds are available .....

This is a list of lobe profiles that Comp has to offer for the 4200.
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6241/compcamslobecatatlas.pdf


If you have an early head ('02-'05) the biggest cam lobe that would be streetable is
intake exhaust
lobe # adv dur dur@0.050 lobe lift lobe # adv dur dur@0.050 lobe lift
8754 240 198 0.251” 8755 244 200 0.248

If you have an late head ('06 to '09) the biggest cam lobe that would be streetable is
intake exhaust
lobe # adv dur dur@0.050 lobe lift lobe # adv dur dur@0.050 lobe lift

8758 258 210 0.251'' 8759 256 212 0.248”
And I'd even consider the next smaller cam than this one.

Remember that the factory cams are really small in duration under 170* @ 0.050"

So even these lobe are adding 30* duration which is significant. The up side is you should be able to run the stock springs and valve length. The cam follower ratio is close to 1.68. So multiply this # by the lobe lift to get valve lift. This give an intake lift of 0.421" and exhaust lift of 0.416" Stock lift is like 0.370.

More cam than this and the head becomes the limiting factor in particular the early head. Don't get caught in the trap of "Oh I'll get the biggest one on the page".

One lesson I've learned is with the 4 valve/cylinder head we don't need monster cams to make good streetable power.

[flyingfischer5]

If i can get the money, i will defiantly get one. Hopefully i can get some money soon.

[_GTO_]

For 400$ , I'll take a set count me then .

What about the valve springs do we need them ?

:thx

[BUC NASTY]

Then count me in.


MikeyDizzle
BUC NASTY

[cmatb08]

what kind of gains are we looking at from this mod?

[efi-diy]

I addressed your question here

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?p=787459#post787459

[aK_47]

I prefer some finished camshaft

[longhorn262]

If we have an early head (05) what would it take to put on a late head (06)

[efi-diy]

To put a late head on an early motor you need:

head bolts
head gasket
valve cover
ignition coils
Valve cover ground strap
exhaust manifold
exhaust manifold gasket

[Nexus1155]

it would just be so much easier to get your model head and do a job to it lol, and probably for cheaper too! $60 on car-part you really can't go wrong. After the port and everything and time to swap heads and cams and everything it should only take a weekend, most likely less of work if you know what you're doing...

[efi-diy]

Yep doing the head swap at the same time makes a lot of sense.

[efi-diy]

intake lift 0.405" exhaust is less.

[Kenaz86]

Then count me in.


Me too! Come on guys, I havent been around that incredibly long but plenty long enough to see the folks complaining about lack of power for the I6, this is a great opportunity to change that... 17 more for a reallly sweet price...

MikeyDizzle
BUC NASTY
Kenaz86

[longhorn262]

Im really want to do this like bad but i probably wont have the money til next summer. If anything i would throw money towards the cams first cause its a group buy then save money for the head work and headers that are now available. Then of coarse i would need a good tune to top it all off. Could PCMforLess do a good job without having my truck to see the effects? Either way i just hit a deer and that alone cost me 3700 so i could have done all this this summer but instead i spent my extra cash on a stupid deer :(

[Kenaz86]

If anything i would throw money towards the cams first cause its a group buy then save money for the head work and headers that are now available.

This is exactly what I am doing. I dont have the extra cash right now to drop a grand in it either, but the Cam guys can cut them whenever... its what they do.

Sorry to hear about the deer.

And yeah, Im sure that you can get a great tune from PCM for less

[longhorn262]

Yeah i didnt think about getting them cut later. I might be able to do it around christmas time in that case. But yeah i already have pcmforless basic tune and noticed a slight difference none in the mpg area just in the shifts and slight performance, but was not sure if they would be able to tune for stuff like headers cams and porting out the head.

[Kenaz86]

but was not sure if they would be able to tune for stuff like headers cams and porting out the head.

Im sure that they will be able to do something about it. I plan on making the drive to get the tune in person... if the group buy goes down then hopefully after the cams get installed.

But then again thats only after the cams get installed. For them to get installed this group buy has to go down... so come on people!

-Justin

[longhorn262]

Yeah ill be able to do it but just not right now so my name will be on there soon.

[Kenaz86]

So its looking like this is dead... Im sorry efi-diy, I along with many people appreciate the group buy and the investment you made in getting the blanks. Be sure, that if you do end up doing this again, I will be the first (or close to it) name on the list.

Of course, I am not taking my name from the list... so it still stands as it is, albeit a great deal fewer names than there should be on it :nono:

-Justin

[efi-diy]

Ralph has graciously offered to extend the group buy period by 30 days.

I want to emphasis that I'm unlikely to try this again.

Its up to the members here to make it happen..

[Kenaz86]

Shame this doesnt seem to be going anywhere... was a great opportunity for the cam shafts.

Thanks for at least giving us the chance... if you ever decide to do it again, Ill be first on the list!

-Justin

[BUC NASTY]

Shame this doesnt seem to be going anywhere... was a great opportunity for the cam shafts.

Thanks for at least giving us the chance... if you ever decide to do it again, Ill be first on the list!

-Justin


Dont worry...Ill buy them (not in group buy price) and let you know how it goes.

[ScarabEpic22]

Ive been keeping mum about this, I want these cams so friggin badly and so does flyingfischer5 but he's broke without a job right now and I dont know if Im keeping my 02 much longer than next spring. Cant really see the point in dropping 2k+ (Id do the head swap so need headers too) in a car that Ill be getting rid of in less than a year. Rather put that towards my SS or a new sound system in my boat (severely lacking on the bass end).

I really want this extra hp in my 02, love the I6 motor and the way it pulls so hard in 2nd gear to 90mph (yea 6500rpm shift points) but I simply cannot afford them at this time. Which kills me!

If my parents say we're keeping it anytime soon, believe me these will be going into my 02 even if it costs me 2k for the blanks to be custom cut.

[Foosh]

man just keep it, its a completely unique ride, a little more work to it like cam and that performance work, you could enter shows with the two tb's and win mad $$

[ScarabEpic22]

man just keep it, its a completely unique ride, a little more work to it like cam and that performance work, you could enter shows with the two tb's and win mad $$

I would if I could afford to, being broke in college, the 02 is 100% my parents so they have final say and the SS was paid 50/50 (but its treated as 100% mine). And my 02 is worth something like 8-9k still, I was hoping it was half that so I could make them an offer but no way can I come up with the extra $$ on top of me paying off the SS.

[Kenaz86]

Dont worry...Ill buy them (not in group buy price) and let you know how it goes.

While I am excited for you to get them... I wanted them on mine too :yes:
But Im glad that someone will at least get to put them on... hopefully in the future there will be the ability to get more of them... oh well.

-Justin

[efi-diy]

Its time to close the group buy at the end of the month and either it goes ahead or dies. If it dies I'm not going to try this again. Folks have had enough time to decide.

If it dies so does any hope of getting cams for this engine.

I find it odd that folks will spend $1000 on wheels and tires but not $400 on blanks that would allow cams to be made that make a real performance increase. Not just 5-10 HP either.

[MikeyDizzle]

So what are the details?

How many people need to commit?

How much down?

How much once they are done???

[chevtrlblzr]

I find it odd that folks will spend $1000 on wheels and tires but not $400 on blanks that would allow cams to be made that make a real performance increase. Not just 5-10 HP either.

First off, I applaud you for doing the work and offering to help us out.

I have been following this stuff. A lot of what you do (as read here and on other forums) is more than the average person has knowledge of, let alone the ability to do.

I'd have liked to see what the minimum cost would be. Say $1200 for cams and grinding. But even if we want to go cheap, we're not done there are we?
If we're paying to have work done - where would it stop? $3000, $5000, ???
I'm sure it depends on how far you want to go - probably $10,000+ if you want.

You know what I'm saying? I'm pretty sure many users here would gladly spend 2-3K for 400 HP if it was clearly spelled out - you do this, this, and this - that's it.

I've read your threads here and elsewhere, and because you tend to go kind of 'all out' (a good thing) I still don't know what a basic install of these would entail.

Again :thx
and your ride's awesome.:woot:

[efi-diy]

Cost for the cam blanks:

US$ 570.00 per set with 10 people participating (plus shipping)
US$ 400.00 per set with 20 people participating (plus shipping)


Comp is charging US$250 per camshaft for custom grinds. ($500 for a pair)

Cost for final camshafts including the blanks ( not including shipping)

570+500 = 1170
400+500= 900

Installation cost depends if you can DIY. Otherwise ask around where you live. Bet there are some Ex-GM mechanics looking for side jobs.
Once the cams are finished ground the only extra parts to install them are 2 new cam bolts from GM. You will need a GM shop manual to do the install (you should have one anyway).



Its hard for me to tag an exact number on the power increase as cams, exhaust mod's, & tune up work hand in hand. The complement each other. With a bone stock early ('02-'05) engine estimate 20HP with exhaust mods estimate 35 HP - more with a good tune. Again the cost depends on if you can DIY. Maybe ask Eric what a tune would cost.

Cams enhance the engines ability to move more air in and out of the engine, but work better if the exhaust back pressure is lower (cat back to start and then add headers). CAI allow the engine to get more air into the intake again it helps.

Traditionally (small block chevy assuming its a 4 bbl engine) if you wanted more power you started with the exhaust mods, then added cam, intake manifold and then better flowing heads.

With the 4200 the intake side is good as is (add a CAI). The exhaust needs work, and the cams are so tiny its amazing that GM made as much power as they did.

Ok to sum things up to make 325 to 400 HP << again it depends on the final combination and tune

Cams either $900 or $1170
Exhaust - check the stainless header web site
head work - $1500-2500 for a ported head depends on cam grind (small grinds can use the stock springs - big grinds need custom springs) again if you can do the head work yourself it'll save $$$.
Tune - with a HP tuner ??? $100 to $500 ????????? I really don't know.

If this does not answer your question let me know.

[chevtrlblzr]

Yeah - I figured the 1200 for cams and grinding, but you can't just put the cams in and that's it - can you.

That's what I was asking. What's the minimum amount of work needed to install the cams and be driving? At the very least, you'd need a tune - right?

1. buy the cam blanks
2. have them ground
3. install them
?. a day with the tuner



And mines an '05 so head work is recommended.


Edit - hey you edited your last post with more info. :) thanks

[efi-diy]

Yeah - I figured the 1200 for cams and grinding, but you can't just put the cams in and that's it - can you.

That's what I was asking. What's the minimum amount of work needed to install the cams and be driving? At the very least, you'd need a tune - right?

1. buy the cam blanks
2. have them ground
3. install them
?. a day with the tuner



And mines an '05 so head work is recommended.

Yep 1-3+ tune is the minimum. Guess call $1500 to 1800 depending on how much the tune is going to cost assuming you do the install.

[Kenaz86]

Yep 1-3+ tune is the minimum. Guess call $1500 to 1800 depending on how much the tune is going to cost assuming you do the install.

I know that theres plenty of people that spend this kind of money on things that do nothing at all for performance and then still compain about not having enough performance stuff for the I6, theres so much more potential left in these engines, just like he said... really want to expose what is left in mine!

[ScarabEpic22]

Tune is going to vary, for this setup since its never been done before you cant just call up PCM4Less, Wait4Me Perf, etc and tell them you need a tune for your new cams. They've never seen one in person and dyno tuned it so they can guess, but you'll end up unhappy Im willing to bet. You need to find someone local who knows their GM stuff and take it to them. Id say expect $500 min for a solid local dyno tune.

Thought Id use this chance to tell everyone complaining that PCM4Less is charging $140-150 (whatever it is now) for a solid tune is expensive and they all want the $99 special, get over it because most good tunes are double that. And Alvin knows his chit.

I didnt realize it was $250 per cam to be ground, I was figuring $250 for both (didnt even think about it honestly before).

I would recommend if you want to do the 06+ head swap too that you buy an 06+ head, have it ported, install the cams into it, then do a complete head swap in a day. That way you're not without a truck for a week while you get everything ready. But the downside to that is then you need headers right away because I think the 06+ head wont bolt to the 02-05 manifolds (check that).

But you'd be picking up probably 30-35+ rwhp especially with the head swap.

[Kenaz86]

Tune is going to vary, for this setup since its never been done before you cant just call up PCM4Less, Wait4Me Perf, etc and tell them you need a tune for your new cams. They've never seen one in person and dyno tuned it so they can guess, but you'll end up unhappy Im willing to bet. You need to find someone local who knows their GM stuff and take it to them. Id say expect $500 min for a solid local dyno tune.

I am going to get an in house tune after the Fall Foliage Meet that the SE chapter is doing... and was hoping that I was going to be able to have the Cams on by then... however, doesnt look like this is going to happen. I dont know what they would be charging for it, but I would have paid it and then it would have been available. Im sure that 500 isnt unrealistic though.

[efi-diy]

I would recommend if you want to do the 06+ head swap too that you buy an 0 But the downside to that is then you need headers right away because I think the 06+ head wont bolt to the 02-05 manifolds (check that).

But you'd be picking up probably 30-35+ rwhp especially with the head swap.

Early manifold will physically bolt up OK to the late head, the early manifold passages are a tad small but it'll work until you can do the exhaust.

[ScarabEpic22]

Early manifold will physically bolt up OK to the late head, the early manifold passages are a tad small but it'll work until you can do the exhaust.

Good to know, thats what I figured.

[efi-diy]

So what are the details?

How many people need to commit?

How much down?

How much once they are done???

Mike,

We need a minimum of 10 set of cam blanks otherwise the programming/setup fees get too much for each person. If we could get 20 sets ordered there is a cost savings of $170/set.

I'm doing this at cost so I need 100% before ordering from the machine shop to ensure I'm not out of pocket. The money orders will not be cashed until the cam blanks are ready to ship from the machine shop.

If we get 9 people I'll buck in to make it 10 to allow the buy to go ahead. I'll use the blanks eventually.

Marc

[ScarabEpic22]

Got some good news today from the folks, they're keeping my 02 pretty much until we drive it into the ground. So even at 111,6xx mi I figure Ive got another 200k to go!

Trying to figure out my very tight college budget to see if I can swing this, might have to buy the cams now and wait til summer to get them ground and installed. Give me a few days, but this is looking much better especially if we can do it for $400 (might be down for 2 sets then).

[efi-diy]

Last chance to sign up.

[LMMJ]

1. MikeyDizzle
2. BUC NASTY
3. Kenaz86
4. LMMJ

I guess I can scrape up some $$$ and get a second set if it comes down to one more set.

[efi-diy]

I'll be sending out a group email tomorrow evening to the participants.

[ScarabEpic22]

I'll be sending out a group email tomorrow evening to the participants.

Send me one too Marc, emails in my profile. If you only need one I *might* be able to swing this and sell them on here once everyone realizes this is for real power gains.

[Turbo4200]

I'm in for at least 4 cams, possibly 6 if we hit the 20 mark.

Jeff

[flyingfischer5]

I am down for one. Now that i got my job back i think i will be able to get one.:woohoo:

[tjgjkt]

I know its late, but are you still taking a list? If so, how many are OFFICIALLY in?

Id love to see this hit the 20 person mark as Id paypal the money instantly.

[flyingfischer5]

Send him a PM or send him an email. :thumbsup:

[efi-diy]

I know its late, but are you still taking a list? If so, how many are OFFICIALLY in?

Id love to see this hit the 20 person mark as Id paypal the money instantly.

9 including flyingfischer5 - I had to do a recount. Once person never responded. I have orders for 10 sets.

[LMMJ]

9 including flyingfischer5 - I had to do a recount. Once person never responded. I have orders for 10 sets.

that wouldn't happen to be me would it? I never received your email. I figured you were still setting things up.

[ScarabEpic22]

Im gonna keep watching this like a hawk, most likely wont be able to afford it as I have to buy ski boots and 08SS > skiing > my 02 TB in terms of mods/funds. If it hits 20 though, i dont know.

[efi-diy]

I am uncertain if everyone that signed up is getting my emails. Please check your spam/junk filters.

To make sure that the word is out its time to send in payment, each set it US$570.

Payment is via US$ money order - make sure it is cashable out side the USA.

I request everyone that is in send me an confrimation email that you have this information to: ca434sbc4@yahoo.com in order to get the snail mailing address to send payment.

Thanks

[efi-diy]

I have one payment......

[efi-diy]

Guys you have email from me - please check