not so good at the track very disappointed

[PEDRO]

well here it is

rt-.569
60'-2.226
330-6.137
1/8-9.340
1000-12.086
1/4-14.428

rt-.498
60-2.211
330-6.131
1/8-9.346
1000-12.098
1/4-14.447

rt-.543
60-2.252
330-6.208
1/8-9.447
1000-12.212
1/4-14.571

rt-.797
60-2.246
330-6.172
1/8-9.392
1000-12.145
1/4-14.494

rt-.343
60-2.268
330-6.195
1/8-9.403
1000-12.147
1/4-14.489


what the hell this is with a vms tune and a corsa catback

[blufin 123]

what was the weather like?

[ghoster]

wow...somethings wrong. Hope ya figure that out! Traction Control?

[PEDRO]

the weather was in the high 50 low 60 and traction control was off

[ghoster]

Was the tune custom done to work with the exhaust? Don't even know if thats needed, it is with Westers though.

[blufin 123]

damn that sucks bro! i was hoping maybe it was really hot and humid. with the mods, you should be almost a full second quicker.

[PEDRO]

it was done by VECTOR MOTORSPORTS:x and on the order form i put that i had the exhaust

[ghoster]

ok then....I am outta ideas. Something is obviously not right though. Maybe call Vector and ask them.:cool:

[PEDRO]

i pmed them hopefully the tuner went to grab a coke and tought he finished mine up:(

[ghoster]

Hope ya figure that out. :cool:

[GTPprix]

Waaaaaaaaiiitttaminute hold on there killer! Before you start blaming anything, you have our Cold Air cal (which is what you said you wanted in a PM to me) and you dont have the cold air kit yet! This will cause the truck to run unbelievably rich at WOT (~10:1) which is what I told you when you requested the CAI tune even though we didnt have CAI's in stock yet :)

[ghoster]

See....simple!:D Glad thats resolved.:rotfl:

[TBSSTony]

Waaaaaaaaiiitttaminute hold on there killer! Before you start blaming anything, you have our Cold Air cal (which is what you said you wanted in a PM to me) and you dont have the cold air kit yet! This will cause the truck to run unbelievably rich at WOT (~10:1) which is what I told you when you requested the CAI tune even though we didnt have CAI's in stock yet :)
LMAO! Nice job Pedro! You forgot to include one more itty bitty piece of the puzzle eh? Why would you even go to a track with mis-matched mods?

[TonyGXP]

Waaaaaaaaiiitttaminute hold on there killer! Before you start blaming anything, you have our Cold Air cal (which is what you said you wanted in a PM to me) and you dont have the cold air kit yet! This will cause the truck to run unbelievably rich at WOT (~10:1) which is what I told you when you requested the CAI tune even though we didnt have CAI's in stock yet :)

what if he used another CAI? would it still be that out of wack and make you lose 100hp or so, cause that's what a second is roughly isn't it? it's not like he's runnin forced induction? The computer couldn't lean it out some? how much more air can your CAI pass through the Stock T/Body? I am serious about these questions, not being sarcastic..

Chris, what was his MPH, cause for some unknown reason he didn't list any MPH??

[tblazed]

"what if he used another CAI? would it still be that out of wack and make you lose 100hp or so, cause that's what a second is roughly isn't it?"

And what do you do in the summer whwn the "cold air" is already over 100° before it enters the intake? I'd almost bet money with the 50° ambient temp Pedro's IAT wasn't nearly as high as it will be in the summer WITH a "CAI". SS is supposed to have a factory CAI already, isn't it? Without measuring and plotting the actual IAT, who knows. Those beasts sure are sensitive to temp if that's the case.

[GTPprix]

This has nothing to do with IAT's in the least! This has everything to do about how we setup the fueling (Not spark/IAT correction) for OUR CAI since without it it's skewed VERY lean. Also his 60 ft's are horrid, he left half a second on the table right there!

I explained all of this in detail in another thread, I'm really not in the mood to type it again. If you read that first it should make sense.

[ghoster]

I explained all of this in detail in another thread, I'm really not in the mood to type it again. If you read that first it should make sense.

Made sense to me and I'm stupid.:rotfl:

[steined]

:duh:

100HP? Come on.... Let's be rational.

These guys are all about helping us out. If they say don't run it without their CAI, don't run it without their CAI.

Understanding at least how some of the CAL tuning works, I can tell you it makes perfect sense that running WITH vs WITHOUT that neck-down will make a difference.

If GM says, say 5000Hz means X Gr/sec of air, then you open the restriction and it still reads 5000Hz but it means X + additional Gr/sec of air, you have a problem!

Seems pretty obvious to me, but I guess this tuning stuff is a little "black box" like to most.

[TonyGXP]

I wish we could see some of the MPH's he ran, and Chrisyou're right, he left MORE than 1/2 sec on the line, use 2.5 times the 60's to come up with more than .6, but that only brings him down to 13.7 or so, and with the fuel being screwed up, that seems to make more sense..I am guessing a 2.0 60' 2WD with a tune should be runnin no slower than 13.49...I am hoping for good things when I get tuned, but I have yet to see anyone other than Mike run a 2WD worth a Dam...AWD StealthSS has a 13.1 under his belt, all's he has is a VMT and Converter?? I think we are seeing different levels of Driver Skill here and cross racing tracks, Atco, my track has great bite and usually a great DA, so I will try to compare those who run there with my own times, and so far no ones gotten within .2 of mine and that was only once, most times the other SS's were .4 or more behind me, making me believe the 2WD was the way to go, but more and more of the 2WD's are having some Sh*tty runs.. I ran 9X in the 13.5's on 2 different outings, 2nd outing my Mph was off by 1-1.5 but the times were close, ran a bunch of 13.6's & 7's but ended the night with three straight 13.54, 13.55, 13.56 all over 101.4, temp low 40's headwind 10-15mph as well..

Planning on the track for Friday night, hopefully tuned, and just a tune, I do it one step at a time..I guess I am old fashioned:rotfl: ..

:duh:

100HP? Come on.... Let's be rational.



take it how I wrote it...you know what I meant by saying 100hp, that was more sarcastic than real...his MPH is the indicator of true HP, although if his truck acted up and was on/off you would be mislead by any MPH readings, but I assumed it wasn't cause he didn't say he had any issues like that?? where is this guy?

[tblazed]

This is what I was referring to.

Waaaaaaaaiiitttaminute hold on there killer!...you have our Cold Air cal and you dont have the cold air kit yet! This will cause the truck to run unbelievably rich at WOT (~10:1):)

OK.... so if it is not Intake Air Temperature (IAT) making it run too rich and loose power because of the calibration being set up for "Cold Air" in the "Cold Air cal" you refer to, then what difference would it make if there is a "cold air kit" or the stock intake bringing in outside air?

[Fishhunter911]

This is what I was referring to.



OK.... so if it is not Intake Air Temperature (IAT) making it run too rich and loose power because of the calibration being set up for "Cold Air" in the "Cold Air cal" you refer to, then what difference would it make if there is a "cold air kit" or the stock intake bringing in outside air?

It make no difference if it is cold air or not. It is the rate of air FLOW and the VOLUME of AIR, if the tune is set up for MORE volume then it is getting then yes he will run much fatter in the upper RPMS. Like Chris said rwad the CAI thread he started and it will make sense. Has nothing to do with the temp, this time. All fuel to air ratio.

I believe this is the thread in which Chris is reffering too, correct me if I am wrong Chris.

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=4815

[GTPprix]

IAT has no control over fueling (It only acts as a spark modifier), you need to read up on the SS intake saga.

[tblazed]

I find it hard to believe that an aftermarket "cold air" intake will deliver that much more volume of air to throw things off so far. Doesn't it also look at manifold absolute pressure and have a way to compensate for altitude and air density as well as temperature?

Doesn't it look at the air temp and other things to trim the fuel at WOT and other part throttle operation? Sure seems to me if it doesn't, there would be a huge difference in operation from 20° vs 120°.

I will go back to worrying about my measly 4.2 6-banger now... got 23.63 mpg on a trip yesterday... and IT will do mid-14's in the quarter! :D

[TonyGXP]

I will go back to worrying about my measly 4.2 6-banger now... got 23.63 mpg on a trip yesterday... and IT will do mid-14's in the quarter! :D

that's CRAZY..Mid 14's & 23.6mpg???:eek: my XUV seems to feel like an 18 second truck and gets 13mpg,maybe 15 on a trip...Maybe!

[ghoster]

that's CRAZY..Mid 14's & 23.6mpg???:eek: my XUV seems to feel like an 18 second truck and gets 13mpg,maybe 15 on a trip...Maybe!

shhh.....the I-6 performance is a secret. I got 25.1 mpg on a trip recently. Same as my wifes CR-V!! My westers tune is on the way, we'll see what it does to it.:cool:

[tblazed]

that's CRAZY..Mid 14's & 23.6mpg???:eek: my XUV seems to feel like an 18 second truck and gets 13mpg,maybe 15 on a trip...Maybe!

It its true. I calculate it when I fill up at the same Pump #4 at the same station. Did my all highway trip 137.1 miles yesterday, took 5.8 gallons.

It has always done 22 or better on the highway. All at 60-80 mph depending on traffic. My city mileage hurts though - 13.5 to 14.

You probably don't have 3.42 gears, and my SWB is coniderably lighter than an XUV too.

Somewhere I read for every 100 lbs, you need 10 hp more to compensate to keep things (0-60, 1/4 mi ) the same. Take off the spare tire and effectively gain almost 6-8 hp if that's true!

[ghoster]

Around town I am getting between 18-21 mpg. I am usually pretty easy on it though. Takes a lot to get me to put my foot into it. Once again though, short wheel base, LS, so its probably the lightest variation. (until my fat a$$ gets in anyway:D )

[TonyGXP]

It its true. I calculate it when I fill up at the same Pump #4 at the same station. It has always done 22 or better on the highway. All at 60-80 mph depending on traffic. My city mileage hurts though - 13.5 to 14.

You probably don't have 3.42 gears, and my SWB is coniderably lighter than an XUV too.

Somewhere I read for every 100 lbs, you need 10 hp more to compensate to keep things (0-60, 1/4 mi ) the same. Take off the spare tire and effectively gain almost 6-8 hp if that's true!

In believe the spare theory, that bitch is HEAVY!!!! must weigh 60+lbs.

[ghoster]

In believe the spare theory, that bitch is HEAVY!!!! must weigh 60+lbs.

Good lord if thats true, I'll yank that sucker off and make sure the AAA is paid up!:D

[GTPprix]

I find it hard to believe that an aftermarket "cold air" intake will deliver that much more volume of air to throw things off so far. Doesn't it also look at manifold absolute pressure and have a way to compensate for altitude and air density as well as temperature?

Doesn't it look at the air temp and other things to trim the fuel at WOT and other part throttle operation? Sure seems to me if it doesn't, there would be a huge difference in operation from 20° vs 120°.

I will go back to worrying about my measly 4.2 6-banger now... got 23.63 mpg on a trip yesterday... and IT will do mid-14's in the quarter! :D

I've said this before (in this thread no less), the IAT DOES NOT CONTROL FUELING AT ALL!! It only acts as a spark modifier and while the intake does flow more air, the relationship is drastically changed when removing the neck down before the MAF! This is the problem, like I said you need to read the other posts on this issue which is exclusive to the V8's ;)

Yes the Trims work in closed loop, WOT is OPEN LOOP! The trims can dial out the fuel at part throttle but once you hit WOT it's a whole nother ball game ;)

Edit: I just reread this and it sounded a little harsh, it's just meant to stress points not be a **** :)

[tblazed]

I'm thinking run-flat tires if they make 'em in my size when the time comes. Leave the spare at home.

the relationship is drastically changed when removing the neck down before the MAF! OK... I didn't realize there was a restriction in the stock air ducting that gets removed. Not actually owning an SS, I am not as intimate on the details.

BUT! Still seems to me there are a lot of variables that will effect WOT a/f if it is running open loop from fixed parameters.

[GTPprix]

the relationship is drastically changed when removing the neck down before the MAF! OK... I didn't realize there was a restriction in the stock air ducting that gets removed. Not actually owning an SS, I am not as intimate on the details.

BUT! Still seems to me there are a lot of variables that will effect WOT a/f if it is running open loop from fixed parameters.

Now ya got it! :) There are some scalers for open loop fueling, but when the MAF is tricked it's all out the window ;) The MAF controls about 95% of open loop fueling. Make sense?

[tblazed]

The MAF controls about 95% of open loop fueling. Make sense? Yup :thumbsup: My '02 non-MAF-equipped 4.2 uses IAT to calculate air density, taking the place of the MAF, which is what I was thinking when "cold air" got mentioned. '06 version of the I6 got a MAF added for more precise control, probably emissions related.

[TonyGXP]

Now ya got it! :) There are some scalers for open loop fueling, but when the MAF is tricked it's all out the window ;) The MAF controls about 95% of open loop fueling. Make sense?

DID HE GIVE YOU ANY MPH READINGS!!!!

[BLUBYU]

Pedro Sorry to hear the news! I'd say get the CAI get some time BTW at the track and bring down the 60's.

[GTPprix]

DID HE GIVE YOU ANY MPH READINGS!!!!

Eh I dont see any here do you?

[Dacomputernerd]

DID HE GIVE YOU ANY MPH READINGS!!!!

WHY ARE YOU YELLING! ;) :laugh:

[TonyGXP]

WHY ARE YOU YELLING! ;) :laugh:

Chris, I was under the impression you were speaking to him through PM's, and since he started the thread I just thought he forgot to include them. I was YELLING because I figured I would get someone's (Chris) attention, I felt he was preoccupied with defending the Product and to straighten out the misunderstanding of how the MAF & IAT worked, and that he knew the answer..Sorry, but it did work:D ...

I ask again, did Pedro get rubbed out:rotfl: ???

VOTE FOR PEDRO!!!

I couldn't help it, I know it was childish, it's just that I don't know any "Pedro's" and that chance may not come again, for a while:dielaugh:

[steined]

Maybe I am missing something here, but what the hell difference does it make what MPH he ran and why are we making such a big deal over this?

Problem: User not happy with results of product

Identified cause: User not using product correctly

Resolution: User to install appropraite supporting mods and problems go away.

Case closed. What am I missing? This is getting as bad as club gp :suicide:

[TonyGXP]

Maybe I am missing something here, but what the hell difference does it make what MPH he ran and why are we making such a big deal over this?

Problem: User not happy with results of product

Identified cause: User not using product correctly

Resolution: User to install appropraite supporting mods and problems go away.

Case closed. What am I missing? This is getting as bad as club gp :suicide:

I am curious to see what he ran? is that a problem? may be helpful down the road to know what MPH he ran at 14.4 with a tune, and when it's corrected what the gain/difference was, how people solve problems and their end result is of interest to me, if it's not to you then why are you posting on this thread? I don't believe you are the know all end all are you? as for your remark about Club GP?? is this really such a "BAD" place? What's your idea of a conversation? people have differences of opinion and see things differently, I know that words on a screen may seem harsh, but when I speak with other people, it doesn't go like this, "what did he run?" "he ran 14.4" "OK" and that's the end of the conversation? Have a nice day..:weird:

[steined]

on treo so i'll keep it short. tony you are right about "tone" on the internet. I was trying to make sure people understood no matter WHAT he ran, he isn't set up right and that the reason chris gave is right on.

I was refering to non gxp area of clubgp too... gxp area is more $$$ so more civilized than rest of site. Lots of vendor bashing and bickering there. :)

[TonyGXP]

on treo so i'll keep it short. tony you are right about "tone" on the internet. I was trying to make sure people understood no matter WHAT he ran, he isn't set up right and that the reason chris gave is right on.

I was refering to non gxp area of clubgp too... gxp area is more $$$ so more civilized than rest of site. Lots of vendor bashing and bickering there. :)

The last thing I would do is attempt to Bash Chris's Product, even though he didn't come to NJ and tune us:no: ...J/K, seriously I drove aVector Tuned SS, that went 13.13, and when I drove it I only got a 13.5x out of it, because Of an intake setup, that was improper (custom job, not right and ripped later in the day) and it went very good.. look at Mike's SS, went 12.6, vector is a great product..

[PEDRO]

NO NO NO I WASNT TRY TO BASH VMS sorry about the way it cam out. i am using a tube that has no neck down that is y i have a tune for the CAI until vector was ready with their CAI. here are my mph in the order i posted my times
lets c 1/8-77.5 1/4-96.11
77.28 96.01
76.74 95.58
77.21 95.92
77.47 96.04

[TonyGXP]

NO NO NO I WASNT TRY TO BASH VMS sorry about the way it cam out. i am using a tube that has no neck down that is y i have a tune for the CAI until vector was ready with their CAI. here are my mph in the order i posted my times
lets c 1/8-77.5 1/4-96.11
77.28 96.01
76.74 95.58
77.21 95.92
77.47 96.04


Oh, you have problems alright..those mph's are HORRIBLE! you need to do exactly what Chris tells you, because your MPH is waaay off..

[02redhawk]

You sure you had traction-control and stabilitrak *off*? Just want to reconfirm....

And, you didn't run it 100% stock, correct? (If ya did, let us know those #s, would be good for comparison to the modded numbers.... 'Cuz, what if by some strange and disappointing fact his truck was sick to begin with, and only running 14.9's stock? Again, just theorizing...)

[PEDRO]

nope i never ran it stock in the .25. Again traction control was off. Wow i just didnt know that having the CAI tune and not having their tune would jack it up that much. One thing is i hope people on here learned from my mistake, hopefully i can get a CAI system from VMS earlier.

[TonyGXP]

nope i never ran it stock in the .25. Again traction control was off. Wow i just didnt know that having the CAI tune and not having their tune would jack it up that much. One thing is i hope people on here learned from my mistake, hopefully i can get a CAI system from VMS earlier.

you removed the neck down? what was your setup then? what diameter tube/pipe did you use? Did you put the filter right on the MAF?

[PEDRO]

nope i just removed the neckdown using a 3.5 pipe i think. i left the filter alone i didnt put it right on the maf.

[Fishhunter911]

ok so you had the traction control off, what about the STABILITRAC? Did you hold the button down for more then 10 secs and see the Stabilitrac off message????

[PEDRO]

ok so you had the traction control off, what about the STABILITRAC? Did you hold the button down for more then 10 secs and see the Stabilitrac off message????

i thought it was the same thing. i guess i didnt have stabilitrac off then :duh: i feel even dumber now:worried:

[Fishhunter911]

Turn off the stabilitrac and gain prolly 2 to 3 tenths.

[PEDRO]

so then turning off stabiltrac will gain me another couple of tenths. And then when i get my vector CAI it will also knock off a couple more tenths to get it where it should be:cool: .