Poor A/C at idle

[Jman423]

Does anyone have any problems with their A/C not working as well when they are stopped and it is pretty hot outside (90 degrees plus)?

My dealer is trying to get out of fixing, but I don't give up that easily.

My friend has an 05 and he just had his fixed for the same problem, he said they fixed some kind of vent that was letting outside air into the truck.

I figure if I go into the dealer and tell them what I want them to check, they'll fix it. Either that or they will just get sick of my persistance and just start replacing stuff till they get it (unlikely).

Anyway, some suggestions would be greatly appreciated! :D

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

Does the engine seem like it's "idling funny" or about to stall when it's idling with the A/C compressor on? :confused:

Also does this happen all the time? Or just at a 'cold start' idle, or idling at temp?

[Jman423]

Engine sounds fine, this only seems to happen when its really hot outside, if I stop at a light, or when I start the engine, even if its already up to operating temp.... Once I step on the gas, its gets cool. The dealer says they did a A/C and heating test on the truck and found no problems. I couldn't get it to do it at the dealer because it was early morning.

[jimmyjam]

I've been having this problem lately too. I went to lunch the other day and when I got back in the car I was at a red light and it would not cool down until I started moving. No funny idle, I put it in neutral and pressed on the gas and that didnt' seem to help, although I didnt' do it for long.

[MoJoe]

That has done it to me in every car I have owned. If I am at a stop AC sucks, no circulation, and the compressor is not running that much, go and it acts normal. I thought this was normal for any AC :confused: I am pretty sure in order for a vehicle to cool down it has to be moving to get the hot air circulating from the engine bay. If you switch the AC to recirculate after it is cool, it should help when sitting still since no outside air in trying to be sucked in.

[jauto98]

I'm having this same exact situation. However, haven't bothered me too much as by the time I turn on the ac and its cooled down I'm home from work (live 5mins away) so I just don't bother with it and drive with the windows down. First noticed it when the temp was around 90+ last monday and was sitting in stop and go traffic when I had to go somewhere after work. I thought my AC cramped out. After I got out of traffic, AC worked it way it should and cooled the TB nice and quick... anyone have a solution to have the AC cooling down quick when you are idling?

[Black Ice]

I dont think there is anything wrong with it.. i think thats that ways the system is made.. i have the same problem when im idle.but when im on the move it cools good, i did have to have the cycling switch replace when i first got it, but that was a problem they knew about.....

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

I haven't noticed anything like that personally, but then again it hasn't really been hot enough here for it to matter -- I've been able to either drive with the windows down or with just the fan (no compressor going) and be fine.

[MoJoe]

Like I said, it all sounds normal to me. I could understand if it did not work at all.

[Jman423]

Like I said, it all sounds normal to me. I could understand if it did not work at all.

I respect your opinion, and I would agree, but I would think that as long as that compressor is pushing the freon through the system, and the fan is pushing the air, it should be cool if the vehicle is moving or not. None of my other vehicles that I have had, nor my friend's EXT had this problem (after the dealer fixed some vent or something).

[MoJoe]

I respect your opinion, and I would agree, but I would think that as long as that compressor is pushing the freon through the system, and the fan is pushing the air, it should be cool if the vehicle is moving or not. None of my other vehicles that I have had, nor my friend's EXT had this problem (after the dealer fixed some vent or something).

Do you have it on recirt, or on fresh air? If it is fresh air, then it would have to have moving air coming in to cool to some extent. I agree with you that all AC's should cool when moving or sitting still. Something that logically should happen when the AC unit is on and the fan is pushing air in through the vents. I wish mine would cool if I was sitting still or moving. I do know that if I leave my TB sitting at idle with the AC on, it is cool air coming out, just not as cool as when I am moving. If you find it is something that needs to be fixed by GM, let us know. I wish mine did blow that same both ways.
:(

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

pushing the freon through the system,

Freon? I sure hope my truck doesn't have Freon in it!! ;)

I think you meant R134A :)

Also remember the compressor actually "cycles" on and off at idle (normal function) and can be on more frequently if not continuously when cruising. :m2:

[Jman423]

Freon? I sure hope my truck doesn't have Freon in it!! ;)

I think you meant R134A :)

Also remember the compressor actually "cycles" on and off at idle (normal function) and can be on more frequently if not continuously when cruising. :m2:

Yes, your right, but you got the idea.... Maybe I should have said refridgerant.

[Jman423]

Do you have it on recirt, or on fresh air? If it is fresh air, then it would have to have moving air coming in to cool to some extent. I agree with you that all AC's should cool when moving or sitting still. Something that logically should happen when the AC unit is on and the fan is pushing air in through the vents. I wish mine would cool if I was sitting still or moving. I do know that if I leave my TB sitting at idle with the AC on, it is cool air coming out, just not as cool as when I am moving. If you find it is something that needs to be fixed by GM, let us know. I wish mine did blow that same both ways.
:(
I think thats where my problem is, I get warm air, not hot, but warm enought to notice... I'm just trying to figure out whether or not it is something simple or is it electrical/mechanical. I agree that it wouldn't be as cold as if I was moving, so you are right on that.

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

I think thats where my problem is, I get warm air, not hot, but warm enought to notice... I'm just trying to figure out whether or not it is something simple or is it electrical/mechanical. I agree that it wouldn't be as cold as if I was moving, so you are right on that.

I think I would go and have the system checked for leaks, and see if it just needs to be recharged. Otherwise I really don't see where the problem is comming from with regards to a mechanical part being bad. :m2:

[Jman423]

I think I would go and have the system checked for leaks, and see if it just needs to be recharged. Otherwise I really don't see where the problem is comming from with regards to a mechanical part being bad. :m2:
According to the invoice they gave me, they "said" they did the whole performace/leak test. I go back this week to have the TSB about my front end noise (link kit replacement) taken care of since they had to "special order" the parts. So I will complain again, but this time I am going in the afternoon so I can prove to them that somethings wrong.

[Black Ice]

let us know what you find.

[MoJoe]

Just an FYI for everyone here, some of you will already know this, but if you have a service done (like a re-fill on coolant) they can over fill the system causing it to perform the same as if it was under filled. I know it has happen to friends of mine, when techs do not know what they are doing.

[jimmyjam]

I checked the pressure in my system after starting it up, and it was in the red zone, >100psi, but after a minute or two it settled down to where it should be. My last car didn't do this...

[qtgirl_78]

Yep, definitely had this problem, too. I changed my refidgerant and it seemed to help, but it still wasn't as cold as when I am moving. Don't really know what that means exactly, but down here in New Mexico, we have regularly had 90+ days, and it SUCKS when you're sittin in traffic and baking...

[Jman423]

..........and it SUCKS when you're sittin in traffic and baking...
Thats my beef with my truck's A/C... :mad:

[04TBEXT]

Maybe this will help....Technical Service Bulletin #04-01-38-019A addresses all 02 - 05 T/B, Envoys, Rainers, etc. for poor A/C cooling efficiency following engine start-up, low speed driving and idling condition in high ambient temperature situations. This bulletin applies to all of the above vehicle built before June 2005. Certain vehicle built in June, 2005 already have had this update and those vehicles would have to be checked to see if the update has been performed. The update involves replacement of the electric cooling fan and a PCM recalibration.
The condition involves no-to-insufficient fan operation during these conditions. The A/C condenser and A/C compressor head temperatures rise and cause cool-down efficiency to suffer. While driving, air flow across the condenser is sufficient and A/C performance is good. The update commands additional fan speed operation at low engine RPMs and idle condition. Air flow across the condenser helps in heat transfer and lowers A/C pressures, hence cooler air. I have an '04 and we have been experiencing some warmer days of 80-85 degrees, sunny, but lower humidity numbers. Currently, my A/C system works great...I did do the PCM calibration as it was available at an earlier date (TSB 04-06-02-005). I am considering installation of the update clutch fan assembly. I currently have not performed this update on any vehicle, so I can't give first-hand comment on the result(s).

[sallen]

Is this a problem that i can take into my dealer and get fixed under warranty mine is a 05 and when its hot out until i get going man it sucks way to hot

shay

[Black Ice]

Maybe this will help....Technical Service Bulletin #04-01-38-019A addresses all 02 - 05 T/B, Envoys, Rainers, etc. for poor A/C cooling efficiency following engine start-up, low speed driving and idling condition in high ambient temperature situations. This bulletin applies to all of the above vehicle built before June 2005. Certain vehicle built in June, 2005 already have had this update and those vehicles would have to be checked to see if the update has been performed. The update involves replacement of the electric cooling fan and a PCM recalibration.
The condition involves no-to-insufficient fan operation during these conditions. The A/C condenser and A/C compressor head temperatures rise and cause cool-down efficiency to suffer. While driving, air flow across the condenser is sufficient and A/C performance is good. The update commands additional fan speed operation at low engine RPMs and idle condition. Air flow across the condenser helps in heat transfer and lowers A/C pressures, hence cooler air. I have an '04 and we have been experiencing some warmer days of 80-85 degrees, sunny, but lower humidity numbers. Currently, my A/C system works great...I did do the PCM calibration as it was available at an earlier date (TSB 04-06-02-005). I am considering installation of the update clutch fan assembly. I currently have not performed this update on any vehicle, so I can't give first-hand comment on the result(s).
With this info i would take it and have them check to make sure.

[04TBEXT]

The content of this bulletin I previously posted, could apply after basic A/C system diagnosis reveal no deficiences in the A/C system. If you are discussing this condition with your dealership, you may advise them of your concern (insufficient A/C temperature output), advised them you're aware of the bulletin, but don't know if there may be some basic A/C problem with the vehicle. Actual A/C temperature output varies based on outside temperatures and relative humidity, so you can't rightfully say an A/C system is deficient because it will not blow below, say 65 degrees F. On a 90+ degree day with humidity above 90%, A/C system temperature output may be 75 degree at best. Parking in the sun, glass area, non-use of the recirculation mode can hamper A/C performance. Also to all you Auto A/C system people...with the blower motor in "AUTO" mode, the A/C control head limits blower speed to 80% maximum. If you want full (100%) blower motor speed, you need to crank the blower motor over manually to "FULL".

[tbmdsd]

mine does the same thing

[Sinecure]

I went to the dealer today with the TSB referenced above and was told that it only refers to EXT editions and the efficiency of rear A/C cooling.

Bummer.

[04TBEXT]

:confused: Hey Guys... Whoever told you the bulletin I previously posted was for EXT chassis only was involved with too much "sucky-sucky" on the "happy pipe". Ask your dealership if they could pull up that bulletin number on their TIS 2000 so you may read it. If they can't find it by Technical Service Bulletin number, the Document number is...like...1671108...man... If after the smoke clears, they can't find it, post a fax # to my private message section and I'll fax you the complete bulletin.

[New to TB]

I'll be honest, I'm an A.C. whore. I HATE heat so I use the air conditioning more than anyone I've ever met.

From my experience, all cars I have ever owned or driven seem to cool the car better while driving than while stopped. Sometimes it's very noticable, sometimes it's not- but it's always there.

I've always assumed it does that because the engine isn't turning the compressor fast enough, similiar to the way that the headlights in some cars will get brighter when you step on the gas because at idle the alternator isn't turning fast enough to be at it's maximum efficiency.

[Sinecure]

I agree AC's cool better when being driven. But my TB blows some serious hot air with the AC on until you start driving the thing. Increasing the RPM's in Park to 1000 or 1500 doesn't help a bit. The car we traded in (a 01 Grand Am 4cyl) and my current truck (02 z71) blow cold air in Park, and it only gets colder upon driving it.

04TBEXT: You've got a message... :)

[go3scott]

I need to schedule an appointment, mine does the exact same thing. If you don't drive down the road a good ways it will cook you. It could idle for an hour with the recirculation on and ac on and never get cool at all.

[sallen]

let us know what the dealer tells ya

shay

[ParadoxJr]

I found something on the A/C Problem. Not working very well when at idle. GM KNows About it..

Bulletins - October, 2002

01 – HVAC

02-01-39-005; HVAC System Inoperative for a Drive Cycle, Poor HVAC System Performance in High Ambient Temperatures (Update HVAC Control Module Software); 2002-03 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, EXT, GMC Envoy, XL, Oldsmobile Bravada

Dunno If this will help or not..

Russ

[thebeast]

This is good info. I had to pick my mother up from the beauty shop. Got there about 10 minutes early, so sat in the Ascender with the AC on high. Just warm air was coming out. I'll take it in next week and see what they say.
Thanks,
jeff

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

This is good info. I had to pick my mother up from the beauty shop. Got there about 10 minutes early, so sat in the Ascender with the AC on high. Just warm air was coming out. I'll take it in next week and see what they say.
Thanks,
jeff

Was your recirc on? I swear I've never had a problem with my AC blowing warm under ANY circumstances.

[Jman423]

Was your recirc on? I swear I've never had a problem with my AC blowing warm under ANY circumstances.
My recirc is always on when I have this problem, but it also does it when it is off. It only happens to me when its really hot outside. Early in the morning and late in the evening, snow flakes come out of those vents!! :eek:

[sallen]

yea mine is only bad when its in the middle of the day, otherwise its cold as heck,

shay

[MoJoe]

OK, it hit 98 here yesterday and I see what the complaint is about. Even under recirt and after 15 minutes of driving, when I would slow down, or sit still at a light the air would get warm. Felt like I was on vent. :( Now I can see why people are upset. Before now it has only got up to around 87 or so.

[Jman423]

OK, it hit 98 here yesterday and I see what the complaint is about. Even under recirt and after 15 minutes of driving, when I would slow down, or sit still at a light the air would get warm. Felt like I was on vent. :( Now I can see why people are upset. Before now it has only got up to around 87 or so.
Jump on board with us pissed off sweaty hot people, MoJoe!! :laugh:

[MoJoe]

Jump on board with us pissed off sweaty hot people, MoJoe!! :laugh:

LMAO, I am now.

[thebeast]

I found this while searching on the NHTSA site:

Technical Service Bulletins Summary

Make: ISUZU
Model: ASCENDER
Year: 2005
Type: MULTIPURPOSE PASSENGER VEHICLE
Service Bulletin Number: 0512001
NHTSA Item Number: 10014796
Summary Description:
INTERMITTENT A/C PERFORMANCE CONCERNS IN HIGH AMBIENT TEMPERATURES AND OR HIGH HUMIDITY CONDITIONS ESPECIALLY AT LOW ENGINE SPEEDS. *EH

Jeff

[lisicki]

Same issue here guys with my 04 Trailblazer. It is 82 here in New Jersey and my air is blowing "OK". Not as cold as it should. Had it checked once. As you all have been told as well by your dealerships that everything checks OK. They placed the leak dye to be sure but do not see any issues.

My A/C starts off cool then seems to get cold for a few minutes (usually when I am on the way to the dealership again for them to see what is going on) and then it gets warmer.

I have been reading the GM bulliten everyone has refered to. It also states that even if they do this modification, it will only produce a 3% increase in performance. Not sure if it is even worth the effort.

I would like to hear from anyone that has had their dealership perform this fix to see if it realy improves the A/C or not.

[sallen]

mine is going in tomorrow to have the dealer look at it

shay

[MoJoe]

I am in on the 15th for that also, along with some other fixes.

[lisicki]

I have just scheduled my TB to go in this Sat. The issue is when they usually check it, it is early on in the day so it is very cold. To them it is "what do you mean it is not cold...it is ice cold now...nothing is wrong"

Just drove home from work, about 80 again with high humidity and it was cool...not that hand numbing cold we are looking for. If i check it again in an hour os so, it will blow ice cold.

I mentioned the bulletin when I called to make the appointment. I did get a "it takes a while for the A/C to get cold in hot weather" response from the tech when I spoke with him. I am not buying it though. In my Wife's Nissan Maxima, you can hang meat in there after a few minutes of the A/C running!

I will let all you know how I make out this time around at the dealership....

Stay Tuned Kiddies!

[lisicki]

Well all, came back from the dealership. I brought the bulliten with me as well to show the tech. They checked the software version on on my Trailblazer and sure enough it needed to be upgraded. As the tech was upgrading the software, we began to talk about this issue. He said that there are so many things that can cause this, it is really a "lets try this, lets try that". He felt that the softwate upgrade could help. However he did say that I shouldn't expect it to get cold enough to "hang meat" in the truck during very high teperature days. High humidity makes it worse.

After the upgrade, it did seem like the A/C got colder a bit faster at idle ( we sat in the car w/ a thermostat in the vent to monitor the temp as it got colder) It got a bit below 60. He said it should go down a dew more degrees when driving (with air going through the radiator).

So, there it is..I will keep an eye on it to see if this makes any difference. They also did mention that they have been experiencing some bad compressor switches with the Trailblazers as well (could be the issue if this software upgrade doesn't help)

Also they did thank me for alerting them about the bulliten (that was a first from any dealership I have ever been to!) Hope this helps anyone else that is going through the same issue.

[Dave]

I'm going to have my EXT V-8 looked at. I noticed poor AC performance at idle, especially in the back. I have also noticed that it works fine sitting still if I rev the engine to 1500rpm. It is in the 90s and very dry here. Temp gage goes up to about 2 marks past half way before it drops.

I noticed this after I spent 45 minutes in the vehicle waiting for my wife 2x.

I keep the temperture around 70 to stay comfortable. 70 in my Caddy would freeze something off your body once it cools down the interior.

[deathbynosleep]

i rarely ever use my A/C, but now i better go test it out. It seems a lot of people have problems with it.

[jauto98]

Well all, came back from the dealership. I brought the bulliten with me as well to show the tech. They checked the software version on on my Trailblazer and sure enough it needed to be upgraded. As the tech was upgrading the software, we began to talk about this issue. He said that there are so many things that can cause this, it is really a "lets try this, lets try that". He felt that the softwate upgrade could help. However he did say that I shouldn't expect it to get cold enough to "hang meat" in the truck during very high teperature days. High humidity makes it worse.

After the upgrade, it did seem like the A/C got colder a bit faster at idle ( we sat in the car w/ a thermostat in the vent to monitor the temp as it got colder) It got a bit below 60. He said it should go down a dew more degrees when driving (with air going through the radiator).

So, there it is..I will keep an eye on it to see if this makes any difference. They also did mention that they have been experiencing some bad compressor switches with the Trailblazers as well (could be the issue if this software upgrade doesn't help)

Also they did thank me for alerting them about the bulliten (that was a first from any dealership I have ever been to!) Hope this helps anyone else that is going through the same issue.


Interesting. May have to look into this. By the way, what year is your vehicle?

[thecarbonman]

The wife and I were in Las Vegas the other day 114 degrees, in stop & go traffic A/C just didn't work well. As soon as we got up on the freeway the A/C worked great.
As a person who has an EPA Type I & 2 HAVC Certification I can share with you that R134A is not a good refrigerant in hot surroundings. this is why many manufactures use both mechanical & electric fans trying to keep as much air flowing over the condenser to cool it.

Just after 134A came out in refrigerators I got a warranty call from G.E. a lady had bought a band new upright freezer and it wasn't cooling. So I loaded it up took it back to the shop plugged it in and sitting in the middle of the shop it pulled down to -10 degrees in short order, as I was thinking about where it was located in the customers garage I realized that it was stuffed in a hole where her old R-12 freezer was, & GE had a warning label that said it needed to be in an open area. I took it back the next day and told her she couldn't put it in that hole, so she found another place to put it and that was the end of her problem and mine.
One thing you can do is set up a mister in front of the condenser use a windsheild washer pump to mist at stops. that will drop the temp with cold water about 15 degrees

[Jman423]

Hmmmm: Deep Freezer + Trailblazer = No A/C problems... :laugh:

Seriously, thank you for the suggestion, but on a $30,000 truck, the last thing I want to hear from my dealer is that my A/C is at its best and can't cool when its hot out. :duh:

I am sure that there is somthing that my dealer can do about this problem, and I will be a frequent customer/complainer until like jauto98 said, they try everything!!

[lisicki]

My Trailblazer is a 2004. This bulletin addresses I believe 2002 - 2004. The 2005 models should already have this software upgrade.

I agree...for the price of this trick, you should be able to hang meat in it with the A/C. I am sure if you keep on them, they will keep on trying to get it right. However, once the warranty is up, this might get a bit expensive....

[thecarbonman]

I agree fully, Thank the government for this. In fact after they set all the dates to pull R-12 they realized that they made a mistake and we the tax payers had to fork over millions if not billions to change out all the governments R-12 drinking fountains refrigerator in lunch rooms etc. Then one day I went to work and the owner of the shop I worked for, and who I worked with at a government contractor base, handed me a bulletin from Dupont the maker of R134A, that told us to wear respirators, and chemical suits when working with R134A, We looked at each other and said, this is going to be used around food we eat and cool us in our cars, what will happen when leaks occur? For you young guys & gals don't be surprised someday when problems occur do to exposer to R134A.

[Jman423]

...........handed me a bulletin from Dupont the maker of R134A, that told us to wear respirators, and chemical suits when working with R134A..............
Oh, thats comforting! :mad:

[sallen]

yea that makes me feel great considering i used to recharge my last car myself,

shay

[Envoy Fan]

I'm going to have my EXT V-8 looked at. I noticed poor AC performance at idle, especially in the back. I have also noticed that it works fine sitting still if I rev the engine to 1500rpm. It is in the 90s and very dry here. Temp gage goes up to about 2 marks past half way before it drops.

I noticed this after I spent 45 minutes in the vehicle waiting for my wife 2x.

I keep the temperture around 70 to stay comfortable. 70 in my Caddy would freeze something off your body once it cools down the interior.

Dave, I think it was on Edmunds where I read that GM has some kind of new part to help fix the EXT/XT problem with not enough heat in the back. Maybe this part also helps the AC
Bill

[thecarbonman]

My wife's TB doesn't blow hot at an idle it just isn't as cold as when driving. Yea, it was the beginning of me retiring, one year later, my dear friend and work partner died of cancer at the age of 47. So far I'm blessed I'm 55 no cancer.

[black03tb]

I got my TB back from the dealer, having them look at the AC under the latest TSB mentioned here, 04-01-38-19A. The service order says they replaced a Clutch part #15293048. I can honestly say now that I've had my truck back for a few weeks and we've had some serious scortchers; this has made a HUGE improvement! The AC kicks up right away and stays cold at lights and at idle. I notice that I don't need to run the fan speed as high as I used to and I like the interior COLD.

A side note, I've noticed substantially more condensation dripping from the bottom of my truck after it's been parked. This to me is a sign that it's not just my perception. Something under the hood is colder to generate that much more condensation. (Unless they cleared a blocked drain somewhere :laugh: ) I also notice additional fan noise at low speeds sometimes, which is consistent the story that there wasn't sufficient air flow over the condenser.

[jimmyjam]

I've read alot about the fan clutch being crap, I have an '02 that I just got this year and I'm considering buying one and swapping it out just to be safe. Wonder if I can do it myself?

[lisicki]

I got my TB back from the dealer, having them look at the AC under the latest TSB mentioned here, 04-01-38-19A. The service order says they replaced a Clutch part #15293048. I can honestly say now that I've had my truck back for a few weeks and we've had some serious scortchers; this has made a HUGE improvement! The AC kicks up right away and stays cold at lights and at idle. I notice that I don't need to run the fan speed as high as I used to and I like the interior COLD.

A side note, I've noticed substantially more condensation dripping from the bottom of my truck after it's been parked. This to me is a sign that it's not just my perception. Something under the hood is colder to generate that much more condensation. (Unless they cleared a blocked drain somewhere :laugh: ) I also notice additional fan noise at low speeds sometimes, which is consistent the story that there wasn't sufficient air flow over the condenser.


What year TB do you have?

[jimmyjam]

Probably a black 2003 Trailblazer..
Gosh I'm such a smart:xss :o
Sorry I just can't help myself!!!!!

[Sinecure]

I also had the fan clutch fix done on my 05 TB last week and it has made a world of difference. I can start it up on 100 degree ambient temps and it immediately blows cold, and continues to cool the whole time the engine is running. Haven't even noticed any extra noise from the fan, but I know it's working right. If your TB is not cooling, HAVE THIS DONE!!! :yes:

[sallen]

hey Sinecure

what exactly did you tell the dealer when you went in to get them to fix that problem, they look at me like i am stupid and say its hot out it will be hot for a min, mine is an 05 also

shay

[deathbynosleep]

Luckily I have experienced no problems with my A/C at all. :raspberry

[black03tb]

What year TB do you have?

I have an '03

[ScarabEpic22]

It was in the low 90s in Eastern Washington today as I was driving home, and I ran the AC for the first time this year, and where ever I was (stopped or driving), my AC was really really cold. I have an 02, and I dont think the fan clutch has been replaced, but at least if it starts not being as cold, I have an idea of where to start looking! :D

[Envoy Fan]

I've read alot about the fan clutch being crap, I have an '02 that I just got this year and I'm considering buying one and swapping it out just to be safe. Wonder if I can do it myself?

Yeah, but you will need a special tool and a lot of time. Also, BE SURE to get the upgraded new style clutch, part # 15293048. I think the Ebay ones are all the old style like you already have.

This from tblazed on Edmunds....

A little involved, but not too bad. The front radiator support has to be loosened and moved forward enough to get the clutch with the fan out since GM didn't make the fan shrowd in two pieces. The shop manual says the radiator has to be drained and the top hose disconnected, but I was assured by someone that's done several just loosening and moving the radiator forward and loosening the 4 bolts that attach the fan to the clutch, there is enough slack in the hoses to allow room to work without any draining or disconnecting. Shouldn't take more than 1.5 hours.

[Sinecure]

hey Sinecure

what exactly did you tell the dealer when you went in to get them to fix that problem, they look at me like i am stupid and say its hot out it will be hot for a min, mine is an 05 also

shay

I told them that the AC doesn't cool at all until you start driving a bit. It's not that it's just blowing luke cool air, but it's downright HOT until you get rolling. Also that no amount of increasing the engine RPM helped. What really helped was a TSB that a fellow member of this board so graciously faxed to me. See, originally I quoted the TSB #, and the dealer tried to tell me that it didn't apply to my vehicle. So when I was able to show him the TSB in my hands, with the year 2005 clearly included, they ordered the parts and had it fixed in a matter of an hour or so. What kinda pissed me off though was that they were trying to change/cover their story and tell me they couldn't pull up *that* TSB, and that the one they pulled up stated something different. Blah Blah. I felt I should have been reimbursed for the research that THEY failed to do.

PM me with your fax # and I'll send you the same TSB that I received. The dealer can't deny it if you're putting the info in their face, especially if your veh. is still under factory warranty.

[lisicki]

Sinecure,

Can you tell me what the TSB # is?

[Dacomputernerd]

will you send it to me as well? i have an 05 and if it goes, i want to be able to tell them EXACTALY what is wrong! I will get my work fax no for you tonight.

[jauto98]

I'd like a copy of the TSB if its no trouble. Got some warranty work I'd like to get done.

[Sinecure]

Sinecure,

Can you tell me what the TSB # is?

Document ID# 1671108

TSB# 04-01-38-019A - dated June 7th, 2005
(replaces TSB# 04-01-38-019)

[Dacomputernerd]

Document ID# 1671108

TSB# 04-01-38-019A - dated June 7th, 2005
(replaces TSB# 04-01-38-019)

Could you fax it to me too? i pm'd you my fax #

[jauto98]

I told them that the AC doesn't cool at all until you start driving a bit. It's not that it's just blowing luke cool air, but it's downright HOT until you get rolling. Also that no amount of increasing the engine RPM helped. What really helped was a TSB that a fellow member of this board so graciously faxed to me. See, originally I quoted the TSB #, and the dealer tried to tell me that it didn't apply to my vehicle. So when I was able to show him the TSB in my hands, with the year 2005 clearly included, they ordered the parts and had it fixed in a matter of an hour or so. What kinda pissed me off though was that they were trying to change/cover their story and tell me they couldn't pull up *that* TSB, and that the one they pulled up stated something different. Blah Blah. I felt I should have been reimbursed for the research that THEY failed to do.

PM me with your fax # and I'll send you the same TSB that I received. The dealer can't deny it if you're putting the info in their face, especially if your veh. is still under factory warranty.

Thanks for the TSB you faxed over. Hopefully this will provide enough ammunition to resolve this issue. Wish me luck. Thanks again,

Jeff

[Dacomputernerd]

Thanks for the TSB! if they give me any trouble i will shove this in there faces!

Thanks again!

[jbachert]

Out of curiosity, does this TSB only apply to 2005 6 cyl models or does it apply to the 8 cyl model as well?

[Envoy Fan]

Out of curiosity, does this TSB only apply to 2005 6 cyl models or does it apply to the 8 cyl model as well?

As I understand it, the V8 also has the problem.

[Dacomputernerd]

As I understand it, the V8 also has the problem.

Thats what i understand aswell... I have the V8, but not this problem YET

[jbachert]

OK - who is gonna scan this baby and put it online? I have a scanner if somebody can fax it to me.

[jbachert]

ANYBODY around that can fax this to me today? I will scan it and get the copy up for everybody.

[sallen]

i know i would love to have it, i really need to get mine done

shay

[jbachert]

Here's a link to a pdf version:

http://www.bachert.net/04-01-38-019A.pdf

Thanks to Sinecure for faxing it to me.

John

[lisicki]

OK guys, I have an appointment with another dealership to have them take a look at the A/C again. I brought the new TSB 04-01-38-019A with me as well. It looks like they were not aware of this TSB yet. This dealership also mentions straight out that they have been experiencing issues with the cycling switch in the TB's lately. We will see what they replace, the switch or the fan clutch.

My question to you all that have been having this issue as well (along with the ones that have had this fix) does your A/C get COLD or just cool? Mine doesn't stay warm but it never gets COLD. It will get cool but not ICE cold. It does however take a while to get cool (like the TSB describes) Just wondering if I am expecting too much out of our A/C systems!

Anyone’s thoughts?

[Jman423]

.........Just wondering if I am expecting too much out of our A/C systems!......
Mine will blow ice cold air at times, even if its reallly hot outside. but 90% of the time, it gets warm when I stop or sit, and I can usually tell how its going to act that day by how long it takes the A/C to get cool after the first startup... :m2:

[jauto98]

I plan on bring my TB to the dealership Monday and will probably mention the TSB about replacing the fan clutch. Mine never gets cold when it idles when its real hot. Instead it just blows cool air. Not really comfortable from my standpoint.

[sallen]

i want to take mine to the dealer but i never have time, and i hate sitting in the damn waiting room

shay

[lisicki]

Not being a master mechanic, where exactly is the fan clutch?

Just was in my TB before, got cool but not cold. Not even getting cold when I bring the engine RPMs up. It is about 82 here in Jersey today...that A/C should be blowing ice cold after a few minutes driving. I sure hope this clutch fan fix works!

[jauto98]

The fan clutch is located in the front of the engine I believe. I think the fan clutch turns the fan on and off depending on various conditions. This supposedly helps fuel economy and power as the fan only comes when its needed. As a result, the fan supposedly cools the condensor so that the AC performs better. Thats how I understand the purpose of the fan clutch. Think of it as a clutch for your transmission. It engages/disengages depending on when you shift gears.

[jauto98]

Well, dropped of my TrailBlazer at 9 this morning for the A/C and some moulding that was coming loose as well as my hood prop issue. Just got a call at 4:30 saying that all my warranty work claimes were done. Talked to my service advisor and supposedly they replaced the fan clutch. Don't know if it was per the TSB that is mentioned in this thread. Will pick it up later tonight to see if the said fan clutch was replaced. I was surprised that they didn't have to order it and have to come back at a later time :eek: . Guess a lot of TrailBlazers/Envoys were having this problem and stocked up :rolleyes:. Guess it also helps that I went to a larger Chevrolet dealer. Hope this solved the problem.

By the way, I mentioned the TSB to my Service Consultant and she said I don't need it. Said it was the technicans job to do it :worried:. Will see.

[jbachert]

Well, dropped of my TrailBlazer at 9 this morning for the A/C and some moulding that was coming loose as well as my hood prop issue. Just got a call at 4:30 saying that all my warranty work claimes were done. Talked to my service advisor and supposedly they replaced the fan clutch. Don't know if it was per the TSB that is mentioned in this thread. Will pick it up later tonight to see if the said fan clutch was replaced. I was surprised that they didn't have to order it and have to come back at a later time :eek: . Guess a lot of TrailBlazers/Envoys were having this problem and stocked up :rolleyes:. Guess it also helps that I went to a larger Chevrolet dealer. Hope this solved the problem.

By the way, I mentioned the TSB to my Service Consultant and she said I don't need it. Said it was the technicans job to do it :worried:. Will see.

I called my GMC dealer about having this TSB performed on my Envoy - they also had the part in stock and it goes in Friday to have the new fan clutch installed.

Let us know how your TB is tonight - I will let you all know how mine is when I get it back.

Thanks,
John

[lisicki]

Mine goes in tomorrow. Would like to know if this fan clutch helped or not!

[jauto98]

Well, got back from the dealer tonight... and my preliminary reaction is that... the fan clutch TSB works :) . However, this was at 7:30PM, so it was not as hot as it is during mid afternoon. My reaction when the service tech delivered my TB was that it was LOUD. I could hear that fan roaring. Well, parked the TB for a while and my dad and I started looking at some vehicles. His Alero is in for warranty work as well becuase it is acting up. For some reason, this is the second time he has lost his brakes. Well, we started looking, which lasted about 20 minutes looking at Cobalts, Malibu/Maxx, and Colorados. Came back to my TB, got in and started the TB. Turned on the A/C to recirc, fans speed to 4 and vent to full panel. Waited a second and wow! I got cold air. COLD AIR :D ! But like I said, this was not the right condition in turns high temperature and humidity!

What was written on my ticket:

A C/S A/C BLOW BUT ONLY BLOWS WARM AIR
CAUSE: FAN CLUTCH ASSEMBLY NOT ENGAGING REPLACE PER BULLETIN 04-01-38-019A
J3390 CLUTCH ASSEMBLY, FAN REPLACE
35393 WS
1 15293048 CLUTCH
FC: 93
PART# 15293048
COUNT: 1
CALIM TYPE:
AUTH CODE:
OK

8969 FAN CLUTCH ASSEMBLY NOT ENGAGING-EXCESS PRESS. DIAGNOSED A/C SYSTEM WITH THE ACR2000-FOUND EXCESSIVE HIGH SIDE PRESSURE (425 PSI) DUE TO FAN CLUTCH NOT ENGAGING. CHECKED SI2000-FOUND GM SERVICE BULLETIN #04-01-38-019A REGARDING CONCERN. PER BULLETIN REPLACED FAN CLUTCH ASSEMBLY WITH UPDATED PART & RECALIBRATED PCM SOFTWARE WITH UPDATE FOR BETTER FAN CONTROL. RETESTED A/C SYSTEM-FOUND A/C PRESSURE WITHIN SPECS (255/40) & SYSTEM COOLING TO 43.4 DEGREES-WITHIN SPECS.

Hopefully this will help everyone who is having this similiar problem. I will hopefully give you all a report during my lunch break, around noon-1pm to see if this fan clutch rememdy worked.

[jauto98]

By the way, here is a picture of the fan clutch (#9)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jauto98/Fanclutch.jpg

[Jman423]

Thanks for all of the info Jeff, I have an appointment bright and early Wednesday morning for the A/C and some other things that another dealer failed to complete, this info helps a lot!! :yes:

[sallen]

good luck j, hope it all works out,

shay

[lisicki]

Well guys, just got my fan clutch replaced. However, the dealership discovered that there was a short in my fan clutch. Replaced it with part #10383029 (not the same part # as on the new TSB) It looks like so far it has helped. We are expecting a scorcher here in Jersey today (95+) so we will see...Put a temperature gauge in the vents...read about 40 on the air coming out with the re-circ on and blower on 3-4.

I find it interesting that the previous dealership I brought it to do not pick up on this short the first time I took it in. They claimed there was nothing wrong.

So, in short I have had the software update the first TSB suggested and the fan clutch in trying to fix this A/C issue! We should get paid by GM in researching these issues for these techs!

[Envoy Fan]

Well guys, just got my fan clutch replaced. However, the dealership discovered that there was a short in my fan clutch. Replaced it with part #10383029 (not the same part # as on the new TSB) It looks like so far it has helped.

Sounds like they replaced the fan clutch with another one just like it. The new part is supposed to fix why all the clutches are failing. Hope you are OK with the replacement the service department did. At least they did something.

[Envoy Fan]

Well, got back from the dealer tonight... and my preliminary reaction is that... the fan clutch TSB works :) . However, this was at 7:30PM, so it was not as hot as it is during mid afternoon. My reaction when the service tech delivered my TB was that it was LOUD. I could hear that fan roaring.

It is my understanding from another forum that the new clutches do produce more noise. Guess it is more noise for more air conditioning. :duh:

[lisicki]

Ok....I went back to the dealership to question the part number and why they did not install the part in the TSB. I was told that the part numer for the fan clutch in the new TSB was not coming up as a part for the 04 Trailblazer??

[jauto98]

Ok....I went back to the dealership to question the part number and why they did not install the part in the TSB. I was told that the part numer for the fan clutch in the new TSB was not coming up as a part for the 04 Trailblazer??


Hmmm... either I am lucky or your dealer just does not know :confused: , I'm thinking the later. Just mentioned TSB #04-01-38-019A. I have a 2004 TrailBlazer built in May 2004. Also, if you have a larger dealership in your area, that may help. I just went in to a large dealer in GA, told them the situation, even showed my advisor the TSB, but said its the techs job to do it, so I just kept it. Anyway, I got the correct fan based on the what was on my work order and the TSB.

As for the outcome of this TSB... Man its leaving me a very cold feeling. I don't know if its psychological or what, but I feel that the AC performs much better. It was like 90 degrees out when I left, started my TB, turned the AC to recirc, full panel and speed 4, and you can feel it starting to cool down just sitting in the parking lot. Drove around and it was pretty much comfortable after a block or two. Went home, which was 3 miles away. Let it sit with the windows closed for half an hour. Came back to the TB, started it up with the same AC settings as above, drove out of my neighborhood and you could feel the cold air blowing against your face. Prior, you couldn't even feel the "cold" air unless you had your hands near the vents. Waited at the stoplight for 2-3 minutes. Went to work and it was already cold inside. Speed limit was like 35-40 mph and this was with the windows closed at all times.

I also thought my acceleration was much improved. They did a PCM update and it just feels much more responsive. Before the update, I had really mash the pedal to downshift and accelerate with the AC on. This time I didn't have to use to much effort to get the net effect.

I also noticed that if you turn the fan speed to five and you idle, you can sort of hear the fan cycling on and off for a split second for a couple of times. Need more seat time before I can definitely confirm this TSB works.

Will hopefully provide some updates further. Hope this helps.

[jbachert]

I sure hope I have results this good....mine goes in Friday - I will let you all know.

[04Trailgirl]

Last week here in the Midwest it's been in the 100's and I too have been experiencing problems with the AC in my 2004 TB Ext. I can start the vehicle, turn on the AC and let it idle, wait 5 to 10 minutes and get in the vehicle to drive and the air blowing is humid and hot, even with the recirculate button on all the time!! :mad: As soon as I drive the vehicle and get up to about 2000 rpm, the AC cools right down and freezes you out. I have a 5 month old and a 5 yr. old and when it's this hot and we are out shopping and I wait in the blazer for my husband to run into a store, I expect my $30,000 vehicle to keep us cool at idle, instead of blowing humid hot air right in our faces. I don't expect to have to drive around the parking lot just to cool my vehicle down or sit in the driver seat while the vehicle is in park and hold the gas pedal at 2000 rpm just so the AC can work properly. I feel this needs to be a definate re-call instead of noticing a problem and calling the dealership and finding out that they are unaware of this problem. :confused: I called the dealership to address the situation and was told that the vehicle is doing what it's supposed to do with the AC, but they would glady check things out for me. They seem to never have heard of this problem...so I cruised the internet for information and found this website and was totally amazed at all the TB owners out there with the same problem. I found the link and printed out the document on the cooling fan clutch that needs replaced and I hope this helps me during my appt. and gets me the parts and service I need in a timely manner. It's wonderful that we can post problems like this and indeed help one another out with our findings on this problem and other problems that may arise. :) Thought I'd put in my :m2: on this...I'll keep you updated. :yes:

[Dacomputernerd]

It's wonderful that we can post problems like this and indeed help one another out with our findings on this problem and other problems that may arise. :) Thought I'd put in my :m2: on this...I'll keep you updated. :yes:
Welcome to the fourms :D I also think its great that we can help out everyone :D

[lisicki]

I agree....this should be a recall from GM. Unfortunately, they must not be getting enough customer complaints or reports from the dealers yet. The two dealers I have dealt with so far on this have never seen this TSB. I feel like I am educating them!

Like the TB taillight issue, it took a lot of complaints to finally have them recall this. We are going to have to start moving our complaints from this forum to the GM customer lines....that is the only way we will ever see a recall on this one.

So word to the wise for those who are getting this fan clutch fix done, be sure your dealers have the exact part in stock before they do the work. If not, they will just install the older part in your TB! Now I have to have another dealer order the part and have it installed!

[Sinecure]

:m2: It seems to me that vehicle manufacturers only issue recalls if it's a safety concern. Otherwise, it's just bad publicity/bad press for the automaker. Plus it costs the automaker hundreds of millions of dollars when a recall is issued, and usally negatively affects stock price. So unless a lot of people could potentially die or get seriously injured, it's given "TSB" status, and dealers are seemingly instructed to pretend they have never heard of the matter when a customer comes in with an issue.

I'd put all my money on saying this will never be a recall, no matter if every TB/Envoy/Rainier/Ascender experiences this problem and complains to GM. :m2:

[jimmyjam]

:m2: It seems to me that vehicle manufacturers only issue recalls if it's a safety concern.AKA if it'll cause an accident and they can be sued because of it.

[Sinecure]

AKA if it'll cause an accident and they can be sued because of it.

Right. But not just a vehicular accident. Any accident that could cause a lawsuit. I just had my tailgate cables replaced on my Silverado z71 under recall because some cables broke while people were standing on the tailgate and caused some sort of injury (whether physical or mental, that'll never be known).

[04Trailgirl]

So word to the wise for those who are getting this fan clutch fix done, be sure your dealers have the exact part in stock before they do the work. If not, they will just install the older part in your TB! Now I have to have another dealer order the part and have it installed!


What is the correct dealer part number?? I printed out the TSB report and want to make sure the part number is correct. I have an appt at 9:00am on Sat. June 30th.... :confused:

Wish we could get paid with warranty $$ for doing all the legwork for the dealership on our vehicle issues...... :mad:

[lisicki]

The part number referenced in the new TSB is 15293048

However, so far my A/C has improved. Maybe my issue was caused by the shorted fan clutch. Not sure if this is the case for everyone with this issue.

[Jman423]

The dealer had my truck today, they addressed the poor A/C performance.

I thought they were going to tell me that there was nothing wrong with my A/C again, but they actually replaced my pressure cycling switch. My first reaction when I got back into the truck was that the air was bone chilling. Of coarse when I got the truck, it was 7pm, so I have to test it out during the hotter hours of the day. But I will say that the air got cold very quick!! I'll let you all know if there are any problems after I test it out for a few days.

[sallen]

great news on the visit, glad to hear it, i need mine to go in now,

shay

[jbachert]

OK - Envoy is at the dealer today - we shall see how it works out. I gave the service advisor a copy of the TSB - so they better put the right part in!

I will let ya all know what the outcome is tonight.

[jauto98]

OK - Envoy is at the dealer today - we shall see how it works out. I gave the service advisor a copy of the TSB - so they better put the right part in!

I will let ya all know what the outcome is tonight.


Good luck, keep us informed. So far the fix has helped me, but it has been cooling down in GA lately. Now its pretty cloudy right now.

[02EnvoySLE Guy]

OK - Envoy is at the dealer today - we shall see how it works out. I gave the service advisor a copy of the TSB - so they better put the right part in!

I will let ya all know what the outcome is tonight.

I'm sure they will. It'll just be installed backwards :laugh: :duh:

Just kidding. :o

[jbachert]

Well - got it back....the air blows colder....BUT

they managed to wack into the radiator....and sure enough it leaks a tiny bit - so back it goes. :mad:

[jauto98]

Well - got it back....the air blows colder....BUT

they managed to wack into the radiator....and sure enough it leaks a tiny bit - so back it goes. :mad:


Man, that sucks. Hope they fix it with a new one. Maybe you should demand a free oil change or something, or else tell them you will give them a bad report via the warrranty survey. Never know. The dealer I went to said that if I give them my survey filled out, they will give me a free oil change.

[jbachert]

Well - it's back at the dealer. They won't be able to order a new radiator until Monday - so at best it will come in and get installed Tuesday...

[jauto98]

Well - it's back at the dealer. They won't be able to order a new radiator until Monday - so at best it will come in and get installed Tuesday...

Hope it doesn't affect the cooling performance of the radiator. Good luck!

[04Trailgirl]

Hello everyone...last Saturday, July 30-2005 I took my TB to the dealership and gave them a copy of of the TSB. The lady told me they automatically pull up any TSB's on all vehicles at the time of service and acted offended that I printed out the TSB to give to them. I explained to her that when I called on the phone to make the appt, the lady seemed to not understand what the problem was....therefore forcing me to take matters into my own hands and do research. :mad: Well, 1 1/2 hours later, they contacted me to let me know that they had to order the AC Clutch Accelerator and I would have to come back at a later date. The clutch accelerator tested "Weak" according to what they wrote on my paper....so another trip soon.

I did notice though and have no idea if this is bad timing or from them testing it, but now when I drive it while the air is blowing and shut off the vehicle, and when I go to turn on the vehicle again, the air is not blowing, but according to the AC display it should be running, so I have to shut off the AC and wait about 20 seconds and turn the AC back on and still have to wait about another 15 seconds before air actually starts to come out of the vents. :mad: I don't even want to try explaining that problem now.

Well, I'll keep you posted, they are supposed to call me when the clutch accelerator is in so I can set up the appt....they thought it would be in yesterday on Wednesday Aug. 3rd, but no phone call yet....usually I have to call them. :duh:

[lisicki]

I finally had the new fan clutch installed in my TB yesterday. As others have said, I did notice the "roar" of the new clutch. I wanted however to hear from the other TB owners that have had this fix done, do you notice that the clutch "roar" is only noticable when you start up your TB after sitting and then it seems to quiet down or do you notice it throughout your driving?

So far, I only notice it in the first few minutes of driving and then it quiets down.

[Jman423]

I finally had the new fan clutch installed in my TB yesterday. As others have said, I did notice the "roar" of the new clutch. I wanted however to hear from the other TB owners that have had this fix done, do you notice that the clutch "roar" is only noticable when you start up your TB after sitting and then it seems to quiet down or do you notice it throughout your driving?

So far, I only notice it in the first few minutes of driving and then it quiets down.
Whats your opinion on the performance of the A/C after the clutch was replaced? As for the roar, I am pretty sure thats normal from what I gave read in these forums.

[lisicki]

It seems like it is better. Not sure if the roar is an indication that it is working properly....like I said, I only hear it for a few minutes after a cold start...after that I do not here it again.


Just curious to see if others have experienced the same.

[jauto98]

It seems like it is better. Not sure if the roar is an indication that it is working properly....like I said, I only hear it for a few minutes after a cold start...after that I do not here it again.


Just curious to see if others have experienced the same.


As in previous posts, I have noticed the roar. When I go to work in the morning and start the TB, I have it parked in the garage and when its on, its like a tornado in my garage. My curtains on my windows start waving and its pretty loud when you are in the garage. When my dad first got in my TB, he noticed the fan and he said "is it suppose to be that loud?" :eek:

As for the AC performance, it is much improvement over the old setup I had. Althought its not igloo cold, its colder than before. I notice I can cool down on speed three when I first start and the windows are slightly cracked. Couldn't do this before. Those are my observations since I had mine done a week ago.

[Dave]

Well I took mine in today for poor AC at idle problem and they replaced the A/C mode switch. Nope! It didn't fix it so it is back to the dealer again.

I have an extended warranty that I purchased through them (First Extended is the company). FE said the switch wasn't covered although I have their comprehensive coverage which covers just about everything including switches. They are saying it is a wear and tear item, although it operates when you turn the A/C on and off. (it is somewhere in the engine bay). Well the dealer sucked up the price $43.

Back to the dealer next week. I didn't want to mention the TSB yet.

[Sinecure]

I noticed before I had the A/C TSB done, that I could stop the fan with my hand with the engine running. After the TSB, I can't even slow it down. To me it's how it should have worked all along. I've never seen a vehicle with a clutch controlled cooling fan that was so weak you could stop it with very little pressure applied by hand.

[sallen]

i thought that the 05's didnt need to be fixed for this problem

shay

[Envoy Fan]

i thought that the 05's didnt need to be fixed for this problem

shay

It was not till may or june of the '05 production that the new clutch was put in. So, most of the '05's will potentially have the problem :worried:

[Dave]

My 03 EXT was fixed today. They replaced the fan clutch and reprogrammed the PCM.

I was worried that they would want to duplicate it (it was only 70 degrees outside when I dropped it off). They duplicated it with their programmer.

I got stuck in traffic right after the appointment and the engine and A/C both stayed cold.

It would have cost around $630 if I didn't have my extended warranty. Definitely something you want to fix before your warranty expires.

[Bad1]

That is normal, i live in Hawaii and my dealer showed me a bulletin about that, The vehicle needs to get moving and air passing. Now that they told me that i noticed it does cool down faster once i get going. So I just speed :laugh:

[04TBEXT]

I have installed the updated fan clutch and performed the PCM reprogramming updates per the a/c performance bulletin herewithin. The fan clutch itself, is larger in size. It also has more of a resistance present when turning the fan clutch by hand. This tells me the fan clutch locks up the fan and generates a greater fan blade speed (RPM). My fan clutch , when fully engaged, sound like a WWII fighter plane. Anything that will "flow" more air across the A/C condenser will result in lower A/C cabin temperatures. The same fan blade is used, but the old clutch and earlier software allowed more fan blade "freewheeling". Quieter, but less efficient @ cooling the A/C condenser...

[lisicki]

I had both the updated fan clutch & the cycling switch done. However, today was not very warm. I noticed that when I turned the A/C on, it was cool but not cold. Now maybe it is just me but shouldn't the air from the A/C on a cooler day be igloo cold? Could the sensors be detecting the temprature and not making the air colder?

[Dave]

I think it does adjust to the temperture inside your car, unless you have it set to 60. My statement applies to auto climate control.

I haven't noticed any more noise from the new fan clutch. The V-8 noise must cancel it out. :)

[lisicki]

I have the manual A/C controls in my TB. I would just expect the A/C to be ice cold in lower outside temps. Does anyone else notice this?

[Jman423]

Well, I had to go back to get the stabilizer links installed, so I complained yet again about the A/C sice they replaced the pressure switch last time. But this time I had the printed TSB and the Chevy Survey in my hand.... Well that seemed to work, because they are ordering me a new fan clutch and some other things that I didn't think they would replace under waranty. So I will update you guys again after they have completed that task, if that doen't work, I'm not sure what I can complain about next... :confused:

[04TBEXT]

My '04 Ext has manual controls and I have had the reprogramming and updated clutch installed. Today it is cooler out and I was waiting in a drive-up line @ idle. This is the first time since ownership (Sept of '04) where I actually had to cut back on the temperature controls. The ambient temperature was about 70 degrees, 100% humidity...I was idling about 4-5 minutes, temperature settings on full cold, fan @ speed #1.
I can say that our A/C systems utilize a low pressure switch. If the evaporator core becomes too cold (icing up...which equates a lower that normal A/C pressure), the switch will open and shut off electricity to the A/C compressor.
With this said, if you running your A/C system on a cold enough setting on a cool day, the system may actually shut off the compressor, in a protective/design measure, causing a less than expected outlet temperature.

[go3scott]

They replaced my fan clutch on monday and now its much colder and works at idle :) :(

[lisicki]

That does make sense. However, this morning was cool. Turned on the A/C (with recirc on) within a few minutes, the air coming out of the front panel vents was hand numbing cold. Turned the truck off, came out a few hours later (temp outside did rise a bit) turned the A/C on and the air blowing was not as cold as it was earlier in the morning. I did hear the compressor cycling more in the morning than I did later on in the day.

I guess my point is, do we just accept that GM did not design the best A/C system in our TB's or do we continue to be persistent with our dealerships to keep digging into this? In my case, the clock is ticking on the warranty (currently at 26,000) I can see this can be a bit expensive unless you purchase the extended warranty (which I might have to consider!)

[Jman423]

go3scott: Does your A/C get cool quick or does it still take a while to cool down?

lisicki: I think a lot of us are not going to just give into the excuse that GM made a poor A/C system on our trucks when we have $30k-$40k trucks, and extended waranties... Thats my opinion anyway. I have 26k miles on mine too, and I will go back every week like I have been until that A/C is the way I want it.

[go3scott]

It appears cools a lot faster than it use too and it cools at idle, but its not instant but after a minute or so its pretty cool. I really havn't driven it very much since it got back from the shop, I've been driving the wifes car to work since it gets 25 mpg compared to 13-14 I get.

[Fleet]

I had my fan clutch replaced 2 years ago on my 03 Envoy. The AC has been working great since then. However, last night after work, I had absolutely no cool air coming out of my vents. The compressor was really pumping, but no AC. I turned the AC unit off and on, played with the recirculation settings, played with the auto/manual settings, but no dice. I was on the freeway for 15 minutes then when I got off and stopped at a red light, I turned off the vehicle and restarted, and the AC worked great. This morning, no issues. I'm planning on monitoring this for a couple of weeks and then going to the dealership. My warranty expires in October.

Is there an easier way to reset the system than turning off the ignition and restarting? Is this an early symptom of something failing? I had the fan clutch replaced because of a roaring noise on startup.

[Jman423]

I had my fan clutch replaced 2 years ago on my 03 Envoy. The AC has been working great since then. However, last night after work, I had absolutely no cool air coming out of my vents. The compressor was really pumping, but no AC. I turned the AC unit off and on, played with the recirculation settings, played with the auto/manual settings, but no dice. I was on the freeway for 15 minutes then when I got off and stopped at a red light, I turned off the vehicle and restarted, and the AC worked great. This morning, no issues. I'm planning on monitoring this for a couple of weeks and then going to the dealership. My warranty expires in October.

Is there an easier way to reset the system than turning off the ignition and restarting? Is this an early symptom of something failing? I had the fan clutch replaced because of a roaring noise on startup.
You may want to do some research on an extended waranty, something sounds fishy, and you know as soon as your waranty expires, you'll have problems. :m2:

[lisicki]

jman423,

Reading back a few posts you mentioned that after having the cycling swich replaced, you turned on your A/C and it was "bone chilling". However you also mentioned that it was later in the day and not as hot outside.

I was curios to see if you still are getting the same results from your A/C in warmer weather?

I just don't get it...mine gets that way every once in a while. Today it in the 80's in Jersey. The A/C is cool but not COLD.

[ieatglue]

you could always buy extended warranty for 4 years (or 80k) for about $1500 CND. it covers you anywhere in the US or canada

[autotech]

This past June, GM released a new fan clutch assy that is used to address the poor a/c performance at idle concern. The reason the a/c does not cool is because there is not enough airflow across the condenser and the high side pressure climbs too high and the compressor kicks off. When this clutch is installed, be sure to have the PCM updated with the most recent calibration. I am a GM tech and I own a 05 Envoy. I had to install the clutch on my own vehicle and it worked wonders down here in south Florida in August! Also, look at the low pressure cycling switch and see if there is a brown rubber band on it. If it does, there is an updated switch that should be installed. The new style switch does not have a rubber band at all. Most 03 and newer trailvoys have the updated switch. I hope that this post is helpful to some people out there.

[lisicki]

autotech,



I had the updated fan clutch installed by my dealership (they had the TSB in hand from me. I would hope they would have updated the PCM as well) I also ordered a new cycling switch from GM parts direct and installed it myself.


Maybe you can shed some light. The air from the vents (on recirc and fan speed 4) at times comes out cold, ice cold (my hand becomes numb holding it by the vent) and at other times it does not. The air temp coming out of the vents is around 40 - 45 F. However the air does not feel like it is that cold.


Do you feel this is "at spec" for the 04 Trailblazer or should I have it checked again to see if it needs to be re-charged? Your thoughts??

[Jman423]

jman423,

Reading back a few posts you mentioned that after having the cycling swich replaced, you turned on your A/C and it was "bone chilling". However you also mentioned that it was later in the day and not as hot outside.

I was curios to see if you still are getting the same results from your A/C in warmer weather?

I just don't get it...mine gets that way every once in a while. Today it in the 80's in Jersey. The A/C is cool but not COLD.
To answer your question, I have not really noticed any difference at all. The night that I took my truck home, it was not that hot, and I had picked it up @ like 7pm. On the way home, it was very cold, and that does happen once in a while, I think it was a coincidence. I am getting my fan clutch replaced on Friday, I will post an update when it is done.

[ScarabEpic22]

OK, I have been watching this thread since it started, and my A/C is pretty cool, but as others have said, not so cold it makes my hand numb. My mileage is still really good, and the clutch seems to still be working, but does anyone have any input on whether or not I would see an improvement if I updated my original clutch to the new one? Would it be worth my time and $$$, since my warrenty is gone?

[Dave]

OK, I have been watching this thread since it started, and my A/C is pretty cool, but as others have said, not so cold it makes my hand numb. My mileage is still really good, and the clutch seems to still be working, but does anyone have any input on whether or not I would see an improvement if I updated my original clutch to the new one? Would it be worth my time and $$$, since my warrenty is gone?

It depends how much you spend idling or in city traffic and if it is worth paying around $600 to get it fixed.

[autotech]

I would say that 40-45F out of the vents is very good. One thing that people have to remember when talking about a/c performance is that a/c does not technically make cold air. Air conditioning is designed to remove heat and humidity. The first thing the a/c does is remove the moisture from the air before it can effectively "cool". The strength of the sun on your vehicle, the outside ambient temperature and humidity levels play a huge part in the effectiveness of a/c. That is why sometimes it FEELS cooler than other times when the outlet temp is the same. Also, when it is set on recirculate, you still are receiving about 5-10% fresh air. Otherwise, everyone would suffocate! I hope this sheds a little light on this topic.

[sallen]

hey autotech, with this upgrade to the ac systems do the 05's need to go in to have this done also???

shay

[autotech]

It depends on the vehicle build date. Some 05's do (like mine did) some don't. I can't remember what the date for the cutoff was but I am thinking that it was sometime in early june 05, but don't quote me. If your 05 was built in 04, then it will. You can look at the top of the label on the driver's door jamb to see the month and year of the build.

[Jman423]

hey autotech, with this upgrade to the ac systems do the 05's need to go in to have this done also???

shay
Sounds like you need yours done Shay, along with a lot of other members here that have 05's.

[Jman423]

Last week I finally had my fan clutch changed out, and not that they have done almost everything I can think of (pressure switch, software update, & fan clutch) short of a new compressor, I am satisfied with the performance of my A/C.

When I start my truck for the first time each day, it now only takes about 10 seconds for the "cool" air to come out (sitting still) versus the 2 miles of 30mph plus driving it took before the update. The fan roar is very noticeable, but thats not a problem. All in all, I would say that the performace is acceptable for 95 degree, highly humid weather.

And you won't believe this..... They replaced the fan clutch, the high-mount brake light, and the rear wiper arm in ONE HOUR :eek: while I sat there and waited. That has to be some sort of a record!! I was driving away from the dealer @ 9:15am!!

[rmzl]

Hi Guys,

happy for all of you that got their fans fixed. Got the truck since saturday, and started noticing the same thing. I will investigate further with the dealer. Good thing is I bought the envoy used from the main dealer.
Another thing that comes to mind is that if the fan is not cooling the A/C correctly at idle , tis means that it's not cooling the engine as well.
Anyone noticed any cooling problems?

Another thing, whith new upgrade, has anyone noticed an increase in fuel consumption. I would expect a lower MPG although not really noticeable.

regards.

I must admit i read most but not all of this long thread. Sorry if someone already covered this.

[jimmyjam]

my ac sucks but I've never had the engine temp go over the halfway mark...

[tblazed]

"Another thing that comes to mind is that if the fan is not cooling the A/C correctly at idle , tis means that it's not cooling the engine as well.
Anyone noticed any cooling problems?"

It only does this in the first few minutes running, not long enough for the engine to reach operating temp. Once it gets going, no problem. Mine's been doing this for 4 summers now, and I have never seen the temp gage go over 210°.



"Another thing, whith new upgrade, has anyone noticed an increase in fuel consumption. I would expect a lower MPG although not really noticeable."

The new clutch has higher minimum speed from a start, but should move the same amount of air when everything is up at operating temp. Main differences are (from the TSB), faster response time when the PCM commands it do engage more, and a higher minimum fan speed.

[rcam81]

I dropped off my TB at the dealer tonite to get the a/c fixed and fuel filler pipe replaced. When I mentioned that the a/c wasn't cooling properly , the service write up guy immediately said that it was probably a faulty pressure switch and/or the fan clutch. I said..."sounds familiar?" and he said yes. I have a feeling that the dealers are getting alot of complaints this summer about the a/c problems and that they are replacing both of the parts automatically.

[rcam81]

I just got my TB back from the dealer. They installed a new pressure switch and a fan clutch. The air coming out of the vents is really frosty now.

[lisicki]

Did they happen to put the part number of the pressure switch on your service order?

[rcam81]

The part number is: 89040362.

[ChadC]

I have a 2003 LT Trailblazer and for 2 years I had the same problem with warm AC until you are moving for a few.. I finally screamed enough at the dealer to fix it. There is a brand new version of the clutch fan out now that is redisigned to kick in as soon as the vehicle starts and it did the trick for mine. The old version does not pull enough air across the condensor to cool the AC until the truck is moving. Now mine gets ice cold in seconds, even when its 90degres + outside. Hope this helps you out. Maybee if enough people scream then this will become a recall!!

[rcam81]

Another thing to check is the pressure switch too. The dealer replaced the one in my 2003 due to an open circuit in the switch. It never threw a trouble code for it either.

[04Trailgirl]

Hello everyone...sorry it's been so long, I haven't replied since my TB was in for warranty repair. My new AC clutch came in and they installed it and right away I noticed an awesome difference, but I also agree, the fan motor is louder, but only when you start the vehicle and take off but quiets down as you go on down the road which is usually less than a block or 2. I can handle that, as long as I don't get the humidity blown in my face again.

The only thing I have a question about is I've noticed at times when I start my TB, the air blowing out doesn't actually kick on for at least 20 seconds and the dealership says that this is normal, which my husband has a hard time believing. He really hasn't liked this vehicle from day one. We were on sort of a push to find a vehicle, I used to have a Grand Caravan and we had a tornado come through the Midwest on Oct. 28-2004 and needless to say, my van was in it. So, off we went to the dealership (I don't like those) to find a new ride and narrowed it down to the TB, only because Chevy was offering 2.9%. I do like having 4wheel drive back though.

Well, if anyone has any ideas on the blower, throw out a suggestion.... :)

[rcam81]

You are always going to get a warm blast at first because the whole system has to cool down. Same thing in the winter...you get a cold blast until it warms up.

[rmzl]

I think what trailgirl means is that the blower motor doesn't kick in until some time after you switch on the vehicle(or A/C).
Do you have automatic A/C? If yes, then I might beleive it's normal so that all the electronics figure out what setting to put on, but 20 secs is an awfull lot. Mine kicks in some (5-6) seconds later. But i guess it might be related to the difference between the set temp and the current temp. :m2:

[autotech]

if it is the automatic a/c system, it will blow out of the floor vents for a few seconds to purge out the warm air before blowing it out the panel vents. that is done as a comfort feature so it doesn't blast you in the face with hot air, it allows the a/c to cool the air first on low blower before it kicks up the fans speed, also.

[piyuyo]

To all;
About the concern of one of the members about if the engine temp may be affected I would say "yes" based in a friend's experience. One friend of mine has a 05 Envoy (identical to the one I have), but he has highway trips for more than one hour, about 85-90 mph (he likes speed) in Puerto Rico with temperatures above 90F... His envoy was taken to the dealer overheated. By a miracle the engine did not suffered, but the technician replaced the clutch by warranty, addressing to this TSB. My friend was also noticing the delay in A/C during startups.

Thanks for the TSB PDF. I am going to take my Envoy to the dealer, soon. Mine's was built before June 05.
Take care!

[Jman423]

On a somewhat related issue, I was having a problem with "Speed 5" on my A/C controls. It was a hit and miss problem that I could not always reproduce, but since there is a TSB for this, the dealer found the problem and repaired it. Apparently there is a diode of some sort that was melted in the blower somewhere, so they replaced that and a connector that was also partially melted.

Just wanted to pass this all along since I know that the A/C can be one of the biggest gripes about our trucks, but once all of the stuff mentioned in this thread has been addressed by the dealer, the A/C shoud be working great.

[AEOLight]

Check my reply to the other guy on the tech pages. There is a new P/N fan clutch for all of the 4.2L engines. This has been included in the new production vehicles as of about July of 2005. The problem is insufficient air flow over the condensor with the vehicle idling. The compressor will cycle on high head switch and not cool until the vehicle is moving. The technical service bullitin is available on Alldata.com. Register in Alldatadiy and you can print all TSB's & recalls. Print this and show it to the service advisor at the dealer. I did this for both of our 2002 Bravadas and the A/C now cools immediately with a hot interior:D . The TSB may also be available through this site...I just joined two nights ago and have a lot to learn. Lots of info here!!!

[apellon]

I took mine in armed with the TSB from the site and also I had a humidity smell complaint. They cleaned the blower assembly with a spray cleaner recoated it with ? and also did the update. A/C is working great till this afternoon. It now turns on off,I checked the harness and wire connectors and the minute I touched them it turned back on to full force.:mad:

[dbeasteff]

Can some one send this to me also? I am also having the same probs!!!

[KNBlazer]

went to San Bernardino county a few days ago it was about 108 degrees and TB 2004 4.2 Ext started overheating and AC air was hot .... got up to about 2 dashes from the red... turned the Heater on and cycled between turning the AC and heater for about 30 minutes untill I got out of rush hour traffic... well since I had the same problem last year in June of 2005 the dealer replaced the clutch because there was too much play in the bearing and replaced the radiator because the play of the clutch damaged the radiator... I think the work was done before the TSB came out ... I bought a new thermostat housing for it but today I started having the same problem here in Oceanside in 95 degree weather ... went to lunch got in the car started driving and hot air and overheating started again... tomorrow I am off to the dealer with service bulletin in hand...makes sense so hopefully this will be replace by my extended warranty ...

[KNBlazer]

Well took my TB to the dealer this morning with TSB in hand and they wrote down the number and all at the end of the day they called back saying they had to replace the fan clutch... part number on the invoice is the new part and they had to replace the condenser because it was leaking ... also they changed the master brake cylinder because it was leaking... all done under warranty... final tally for the warranty was 1700.00 for the work and parts .... good thing I have the extended warranty.... we will see how the a/c performs in the next few days..... it was cloudy all day here

[tonyb5150]

my ac works great..it struggles a little bit at idle..but only when it is REAL hot..but what car doesnt?

[rastephens]

my ac works great..it struggles a little bit at idle..but only when it is REAL hot..but what car doesnt?

Mine doesn't "struggle a bit at idle," it doesn't work at ALL at idle, at least until it warms up. But it's in the dealer today, hopefully this problem is history!

[KNBlazer]

Mine doesn't "struggle a bit at idle," it doesn't work at ALL at idle, at least until it warms up. But it's in the dealer today, hopefully this problem is history!
Good luck cuz I am back at the dealer in a few minutes... I noticed that the fan does not change speeds it is at a constant speed...and since there is no SES light (check engine light) on I take it the problem may be a pcm software issue... since I did not see a flash on the invoice when I had the clutch replaced I think they may have not flashed the PCM...after all dealers charge for everything.... A/C seemed to be working fine after the service untill I got off the freeway and was waiting at the offramp ... the temp gauge started to creep up...checked under the hood and sure enough the fan was working the way it was working before ... I would imagine since the temp is so high the fan should be screaming ... but we will see what the dealer says...

[lilchoke]

im going to the dealer tues. i have had that prob and my a/c shuts off (keeps blowing only hot or humid) while driving. i noticed it 2 months ago. it did it on my way to va from ga. it did it again this weekend. a friend says he is going to get the dealer to do it under ext warranty for me. hopefully does. ill keep you updated.

[lilchoke]

service tech called and no problems. they cannot figur out why my a/c suts off after a while. mine blows fine at idle but sometimes hot/humid air comes out :confused: :mad: i hate it not sure about what to do. what you guys think

[blownv6]

I had very similar problems, and by researching this site, discovered the Low Pressure Sensor on the condenser problem! My A/C has been TERRIBLE for over 2 years, and the stealer said that's how they are. WHAT B$.

Get yourself a paperclip, find your condenser, and disconnect the electrical connector. Insert the paper clip into the connector, and VOILA! You bypass it!

My A/C has NEVER blown this cold EVER in any vehicle I've owned.

Hope this helps someone during this NorthEastern heatwave......I couldn't have fixed it at a better time!

D

[jbachert]

I had very similar problems, and by researching this site, discovered the Low Pressure Sensor on the condenser problem! My A/C has been TERRIBLE for over 2 years, and the stealer said that's how they are. WHAT B$.

Get yourself a paperclip, find your condenser, and disconnect the electrical connector. Insert the paper clip into the connector, and VOILA! You bypass it!

My A/C has NEVER blown this cold EVER in any vehicle I've owned.

Hope this helps someone during this NorthEastern heatwave......I couldn't have fixed it at a better time!

D

Wonder if replacing the low pressure sensor would solve it - could the sensor be failed?

Anybody have any ideas on what the part number might be?

[blownv6]

The sensor is DEFINITELY bad. I just haven't replaced it yet. I just did this 2 days ago, after OVER 2 years of terrible AC. The stealership are a bunch of aholes......I am half tempted to bitch them out about this; seeing how I'm out of warranty now.

D

[lilchoke]

i wonder is it my low pressure sensor?????

[blownv6]

Here's what my symptoms were:

A/C would sometimes come on fine, then after driving-stop-and-go; It would start blowing hot air. Even going 80mph, it would work one minute, and stop the next. Then it would go through days of not working at all, just hot air coming out. I do NOT trust mechanics, so I lived with it, especially after the stealership I bought it from could not even fix it.

Paperclip in the sensor harness SOLVED the problem. 2 days+ of COLD COLD COLD A/C, after 2+ Years of crap.....COuld not have done it without this site!

I LOVE THIS SITE!

D

[jimmyjam]

alright you've got me really excited, I had my AC go out for half a day, 2 hours into my 6 hour drive to the keys. I'm scared of bypassing the low pressure sensor though, god forbid something horrible happens and i burn out the compressor.

The low pressure sensor is under pressure, right? so you can't change it without releasing the r134a, replacing, and vacuuming the system afterwards and refilling, correct? dang it sounds like something I'm going to have to pay someone to do :(

[blownv6]

From what I read, the low pressure sensor is on a Scrader valve; so it can be EASILY changed without compromising the Refrigerant........Simple from what I've read.

D

[jbachert]

From what I read, the low pressure sensor is on a Scrader valve; so it can be EASILY changed without compromising the Refrigerant........Simple from what I've read.

D

That would be nice - part # anybody?!?!

[lisicki]

Even better...some pictures on this "paper clip" solution. Curious to see it!

[tblazed]

Get yourself a paperclip, find your condenser, and disconnect the electrical connector. Insert the paper clip into the connector, and VOILA! You bypass it!

My A/C has NEVER blown this cold EVER in any vehicle I've owned.

Hope this helps someone during this NorthEastern heatwave......I couldn't have fixed it at a better time!

D

If you are talking about jumpering the low pressure switch on the accumulator (big silver can next to the coolant reservoir), do that only as a test. It might work for a while but on milder days, that's what regulates the evaporator temp and prevents freezeup. Surface temps have to stay above 32°F. It will eventually freeze the water condensate on the evaporator core solid and the ice will expand, no air will pass through, this may damage the evap core and cause a leak. The you REALLY have problems.

It could also be that your system is low on R134 causing it to pull the pressure too low when the compressor runs, cycling the compressor excessively and poor cooling.

(the condenser is in front of the radiator BTW)

[blownv6]

Thanks for the correction accumulator, not condenser :duh: . I ordered my switch yesterday, and smoke so my windows are down half the time, with my A/C off. I am not saying to do this as a permanent fix by ANY MEANS. If it fixes it, then you know where the problem is......But It is SWEET having A/C in 100+ degree weather, after NOT HAVING IT for 2+ years......

I'll get you guys a paperclip shot in a few minutes:p

D

EDIT- Here they are; and YES I put electrical tape over this, Scotch 3m to be exact......It was taken off and reapplied for the boards benefit

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/jizzajam/Paperclip_Trick_001.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/jizzajam/Paperclip_Trick_003.jpg

[lisicki]

Was there another pic?? Can't see it.....

[jimmyjam]

Was there another pic?? Can't see it.....
open your eyes... its pic #2. a little blurry but visible none the less

[tblazin18]

so how many choices are their to a bad a/c? and which is the best to narrow down the search?thanx

[lisicki]

The second pic was just coming up as an x....it looks like it is working now...i can see it!

[lilchoke]

anyone had any luck with the low pressure switch. im about to do it cause wifey drove it today back to work (5 mi trip) & it did it again. dealer is :crazy: :confused: :sleepy: :rolleyes: and im :mad: . keep us posted.

[AEOLight]

Had the same issue on mine. Had to diagnose ALL of my issues myself as the dealer was helpless to THINK THROUGH the problem.:crazy: Luckily I have the equipment to do HVAC on autos.:D There are several TSB's relating to these pressure switches. Had one fail on one of our company vans this afternoon.:mad: BTW, make sure you have the new style fan clutch and software. Check posts for part numbers, etc. :yes:

[blownv6]

OK,

Got the part today from GM

It's Part Number #89040362

And they called it an A/C Cycling Switch

Total cost was $36.04 including tax.

I installed it, there IS a Scrader valve, and it took all of two minutes to do. So there's NO worries about emptying your Freon and having to recharge it. Went and road tested it, and it all works PERFECT. :D

D

[rbarrios]

I was curious was a schrader valve was... here it is...
DUH... been using them all my life... I alwaus called it the valve stem.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrader_valve

[tblazin18]

ok i think i got mine fixed today. needed a new pressure switch and a 2lb recharge. Seems to working great again. $200 later

[fardrew]

I had the same problem on my 04 LS, one trip to the dealer and they diagnosed my LS with a bad fan clutch. It was replaced and now my A/C problems and low idle are finally solved.

[EricL]

Does the engine seem like it's "idling funny" or about to stall when it's idling with the A/C compressor on? :confused:

Also does this happen all the time? Or just at a 'cold start' idle, or idling at temp?

This is exactly what happens to my Trailblazer ext. What fixes this???

[rbarrios]

EricL.
If your engine idles ok with AC off...
and then idles funny with the AC on...
and you possibly changed battery recently?
then you most likely have an easy fix.
This same thing happened to me....
I replaced battery- cleaned out battery tray etc.. but I left my battery disconnected for more than 20 min.
Upon restart engine was fine. shifted differently 1st few miles.
But later in the day, when I turned on AC at a stop light, the RPMs dropped from 600 to 200 and the engine stumbled. it revved up to more than 1000 and back to 600 then to 200 and it cycled this way as long as AC was on. Engine even shut off a few times.
The fix?
Disconnect battery for at least 20-30 min (so that it forgot the new bad settings it was learning) and I cleaned the throttle body.
Once I turned on engine, and turned on AC- PERFECT.
the needle didnt even move when the compressor came on.

Seems that the Engine had learned settings before the original batteyr disconnect... and it knew what to do when the AC came on.
When it forgot settings, it didnt know how to compensate for the dirty throttle body performance and thus the crappy idle appeared.

so you may be in for a cleaning.

[EricL]

Well, it looks like I may have had 2 different problems. Along with the A/C problem, my car would overheat at stop lights. I had taken it to the dealer and they said it was the thermostat and coolant temperature sensor. I took it home and it overheated and still had the stalling problem. I took it back in this morning and they replaced the Fan Clutch and reprogrammed my PCM totally. I haven't picked up my TB yet, but I'm hoping all is fixed. If not, you've given me a great place to start. My TB is out of warranty and I don't want to put anymore unnecessary money into.

Thanks alot.

[rbarrios]

wonder why they didnt catch the fan the 1st time... im sure theyve seen plenty of them.

[EricL]

Not quite sure. But the truck seems to running fine now. The A/C is blowing colder than ever and it isn't stalling anymore. It is still running a little on the hot side at stop lights. I guess around the 230 or 240 mark, but never passes that. Of course I live in Texas and its 100 outside, so I guess that might be normal. I'll have to keep an eye on it.

[EricL]

Nope, my Trailblazer overheated today. But again, only when the A/c is on. I don't understand what else it could be. They replaced the thermostat, the coolant temperature sensor and the fan clutch. Its going back to the dealer in the morning.

[Jackson]

New to the forum, just wanted some advice on the bad fan clutch issue. I took the TSB to the dealer and they replaced the fan clutch with P/N 15802525 and the invoice doesn't say anything about updating the PCM. On the way home, I didn't notice any additional noise (some of you have said the new clutch is much louder) and the A/C didn't seem much colder. Does anyone know the difference between P/N 15802525 and the TSB clutch P/N 15293048? This forum is great! I'm still under warranty and it's pretty warm around here.

[85vette]

Hi everyone, I'm new here, but wanted to add to the discussion. I have a 2004 TB LT and was experiencing the same A/C problem here in Florida. I assumed that this was just the characteristics of all TB's but being the vehicle is still in warranty, I had the dealer look at it last Friday. To my delight they fixed it the same day by replacing the fan clutch per service bullitin 04-01-38-019A. I can get in it now and start it up and viola! Instant cold air! So contact your dealers guys and pass this bullitin info along. Hope I've helped some of you.

[Heath]

The crappy A/C cooling at idle is the main reason I did my E-fans.

[El Zopilote]

I just have the dealer replace my fan clutch and now at any given time the a/c start to blow hot air and then goes back to cold and so on...I want to think there is something that they may set wrong after setting the new fan clutch any ideas....

Thank you all,

[rbarrios]

heath. I believe one of the reasons the dealer does a software update on the fan clutch software is to update parameters for AC and idle issues. People who did the update report that AC now blows nice and cold at idle.

[Heath]

Even still at 100% engagement the stock fan can only move so much air at idle. Mine had the "update" and on 100+ days the ac would not blow cold.

[TB305]

Does the engine seem like it's "idling funny" or about to stall when it's idling with the A/C compressor on? :confused:

Also does this happen all the time? Or just at a 'cold start' idle, or idling at temp?

yea mines does that, most of the time when i turn on the a/c. theres been 2 times that its shut off on me. what could it be? :confused:

[Envoy_Ohana]

This problem is from the Fan Clutch. 02 & 03 had problems with it. It was causing "clicking" sounds at low rpms (especially from starting the engine). This also causes the A/C to blow warm air while at a stop. Some people had complained that is also sounded like a "jet" while driving.

TSB No.: 0810B
NHTSA No.: 10005383
TSB Date: January 01, 2004


Failing Component:
Engine And Engine Cooling:Cooling System:Fan

Description of Summary:
Tick noise at idle.


Check this link out: http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic246071.htm

Hope this will help you guys!

:crazy:

[mjclsi]

My 05 TB does the same thing...but my other car does not. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the fan clutch isn't strong enough.

[SteveTB03]

The crappy A/C cooling at idle is the main reason I did my E-fans.

what fans did you go with?

[KNBlazer]

I had the fan clutch replaced 3 times in 2 years they updated the pcm .. I even took the damn Service Bulletin I printed it out and showed it to them he wrote it down on the service invoice and at the end of the day they replaced the fan clutch one more time and said that they couldn't duplicate the problem .. I told him you should go out to the desert and it will do it ... the last time I took it in I was mad... well as I have already posted I am putting in a secondary E-Fan to work with the clutch fan ... 90+ degree day and at idle the temp will creep up until I turn the AC off .. ?... when I start the TB I hear the fan roar like a jet engine so I know it is working ...

[KNBlazer]

what fans did you go with?
he/she probably has an SS

[SteveTB03]

I just want better A/C,:mad: my parents 2000 voyager does better then my 03 TB it's ridiculous

[gmcman]

Mine is the same way and from what I gather the stock clutch fan just won't move enough air when not fully engaged allowing the condenser to get just warm enough that the head pressure gets high enough to cycle the compressor on/off....is this the case?

[SteveTB03]

I dont think that my compressor cycles on or off i replaced my cycling switch which actually keeps my A/C from doing that. it's that it's 110+ now here in Vegas and i park in a garage at work and when i start it it's nice and cold but not freeze cold, just enough to not realize it's 110+ outside. and as soon as i go and drive outside and the temp gauge starts to read middle range and im driving it stops being cold and goes to luke cold

it's like the A/C unit is getting too warm and with the outside temp and the engine temp it cant compete much like my parents does

[AbuAbdulAziz]

Hey ..
since the day i bought my tb,back in 2004, i never had any prob's with my A/C and was really happy that it was that good, now 4 years later, i\m getting the same hot air thingy :hissy: no idea why !! funny i dealing, hot air until we get moving .... :mad: help !!!

[06SSLT]

I respect your opinion, and I would agree, but I would think that as long as that compressor is pushing the freon through the system, and the fan is pushing the air, it should be cool if the vehicle is moving or not. None of my other vehicles that I have had, nor my friend's EXT had this problem (after the dealer fixed some vent or something).

Makes a big difference how much air is being pulled by the condensor. If you lock up the fan or command e-fans to high it helps.


I know what you are saying because the compressor cycles as if its done its job and is idling...

But really, condensor temps make a huge difference. Thats why on home AC units they try to get you to put them in the shade.

[gmcman]

Have the voy at the stealer for some warranty work so I had to take my faithful 90 Grand Am to work. When I left it was still about 95 deg and by the time I was out of the parking lot I had freezing cold air :) 40 deg at the vents on REC...well about 4 inches inside the vent, gotta love the R12. I would think a modern vehicle like this would have a decent A/C.

[bass202]

Does anyone still a copy they could fax me or email to me?

Thanks
Randy

[AbuAbdulAziz]

something weird happened today :undecided
was at a long traffic light, 12:00pm when suddenly my a/c jumped from " ok-cool-breeze" mode to " deep-freeze " mode :eek: !!! i was like AWESOME !! y tb fixed it self and wanna save me some $$$ and time :woot: when i noticed that it actually over heated a little bit :mad: i was like what !!! :duh:
then when i finally started movin, it went back to its normal " not funny at all " mode :hahano:

any ideas ??? thought ?

[rperkins1]

As a resident of Orlando Fl I have the same problems you are talking about. The problem is that in a TB you depend on the fan driven by the motor to pull air throw the a/c condenser. At low idle it’s not enough. When the TB is moving you have more air to cool the a/c condenser.
My 87 Toyota supra has two electric fans. One operates when the engine reaches a certain temp. The second fan turns on and runs as long as you have the AC turned on.
My 86 Camaro ( yes I’m single ) has one large electric fan. It runs all the time when you have the ac on.

[AbuAbdulAziz]

As a resident of Orlando Fl I have the same problems you are talking about. The problem is that in a TB you depend on the fan driven by the motor to pull air throw the a/c condenser. At low idle it’s not enough. When the TB is moving you have more air to cool the a/c condenser.
My 87 Toyota supra has two electric fans. One operates when the engine reaches a certain temp. The second fan turns on and runs as long as you have the AC turned on.
My 86 Camaro ( yes I’m single ) has one large electric fan. It runs all the time when you have the ac on.

Yup, been there, the funny thing was we traveled 120000 miles to the exact same weather !! :laugh: remember when dad came out of the plane and said " uhh just like home ! " and my mom said " your kiddin me right ? " :dielaugh:
yeah, i really need to do something to my A/C man, i dont wanna my kids suffer the heat :mad:

[0Dogg]

I joined this forum, specifically, to figure out this issue with our '02 TB. We recently purchased it from the in-laws (for less than trade-in value.) :) So, adding this to our garage with our '07 Yukon, we have a happy little GM SUV family...except for this A/C problem and the key marks down the side of the Yukon. >:(

In any event, I just got off the phone with a local dealership. The service tech knew exactly what I was talking about...the clutch fan issue. So we proceeded to discuss repair options, etc. Of course, the TB is waaaaay out of warranty due to miles. However, he explained to me that a service bulletin is a document to assist service techs in quick-solving widespread performance issues. However, they do not provide manufacturer assistance in terms of repair costs. I know that an official "campaign" or "recall" is federally mandated and usually revolves around a safety concern. However, in my mind it is a stupid policy that allows a manufacturer to say, "We have a faulty product that is so far-reaching that we need to issue a standardized memo to all of our service employees so that they know how to fix it. BUT, we aren't willing to pay for it."

:mad:

[notasinger]

As stated many times over, replace the fan clutch and your issues will magically dissappear. I am a survivor. This is a couple hour job to do it yourself and the stealer will charge you around $650 to do it for you.

[bigkeyz]

ok i have the same issue, but Im not getting any weird noises from the fan. could this be the low pressure cycling switch i also hear about

[lilchoke]

As stated many times over, replace the fan clutch and your issues will magically dissappear. I am a survivor. This is a couple hour job to do it yourself and the stealer will charge you around $650 to do it for you.

what the part number. do i order this at the stealer or online. how long woill this take to do??? asking i prob ac do it just in school studying architecture... so time is limited.

[SoCool]

Been reading this thread and I am amazed by how many of you have the same problem as I do. I have an '02 Envoy and the a/c will blow warm on a first start until I do about a block and a half. Please let me know what the tsb# is so I can call my dealer to see if they have the parts in stock. I bought this last October and it was a certified used vehicle. Had the a/c checked and was told there was no problem. This is my first post and I do appreciate the help. Thanks :)

[gmcman]

As stated many times over, replace the fan clutch and your issues will magically dissappear. I am a survivor. This is a couple hour job to do it yourself and the stealer will charge you around $650 to do it for you.

I want to say it might help me but mine isn't blowing warm air but just "not cold enough" to irritate me. My fan works fine and the voy has done this from prolly the beginning...if it's the fan getting weak at idle then maybe i'll change it but how do you tell? Maybe an elec fan in front of the condenser to help out at idle...I dunno but this is the only vehicle that does this at idle that I have ever been in...seems like a vast majority of owners suffer this, very frustrating.
Like I said earlier, my 17 year-old grand-am A/C blows ice cold at any speed, and has a small single elec fan, the TV's have much newer technology.

[KNBlazer]

just install an electric fan on the radiator and your problems will definitely disappear.. this following mod I did fixed my problems.. you could also consider a complete E-Fan conversion...


http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=11991

[SoCool]

Been reading this thread and I am amazed by how many of you have the same problem as I do. I have an '02 Envoy and the a/c will blow warm on a first start until I do about a block and a half. Please let me know what the tsb# is so I can call my dealer to see if they have the parts in stock. I bought this last October and it was a certified used vehicle. Had the a/c checked and was told there was no problem. This is my first post and I do appreciate the help. Thanks :)

Can anyone help me out on this?

[notasinger]

I ordered mine through my local Autozone. It took a couple of days but was over $100 cheaper than the dealer.

[weldtech]

with ours if you stop at a light it immediately you are hot because the fan pretty much quits blowing until you take off again.

[tblazed]

Can anyone help me out on this?

TSB #04-01-38-019A - (Jun 7, 2005)
Intermittent Slow to Cool HVAC Performance Concerns in
High Ambient Temperatures and/or High Humidity
Conditions After Start Up, Especially at Low Engine
Speeds (Install New Engine Cooling Fan Clutch)

[SoCool]

TSB #04-01-38-019A - (Jun 7, 2005)
Intermittent Slow to Cool HVAC Performance Concerns in
High Ambient Temperatures and/or High Humidity
Conditions After Start Up, Especially at Low Engine
Speeds (Install New Engine Cooling Fan Clutch)

Thanks for your response. I will try to obtain a copy of this bulletin and bring it to the dealer.

[Super 88]

Good luck! I just got off the phone with my dealership. I have the same problem, very little if any cooling at low speeds. The service guy said his tech checked the a/c and "it's working fine - throwing 45 degree air out the vents" When I asked him what the outside air temp was in San Diego, he said "I don't see what that has to do with it?" I explained to him that when the outside air temp is 75 the a/c works okay, but in 90-100 and above it hardly works at all.

He went on to explain to me that this is a "normal" condition - that no car cools very well at a stop or low speed.

I asked if he had checked the TSB for this, and the response was "What TSB"? I gave him the number, he said he'd pull it and show to the "tech" and get back to me!
UGGGHHH! I hate dealerships!:hissy:

[Super 88]

Well the good news is they replaced my fan clutch and it does seem to be doing better. You've got to love dealerships. After telling me on the phone that everything was "normal" and "working fine" on my invoice it states:
"Customer states a/c does not cool driving on streets Test a/c and check fan, fan clutch bad, not enough airflow replace fan clutch, doc ID 1671108"


Bad news is they said they couldn't find the "chirping" noise I complained about. I just got home and pulled into my driveway and guess what - my chirping (sometimes more like a grinding sound) is back. I happened to turn the a/c off and it went away. Turn it back on and the noise started up again. So I'm guessing bad a/c compressor clutch? Oh what fun! Fortunately I'm still under 36K/ 3 years but just barely by about 500 miles or 3 months!

A special thanks to everyone who has posted on this topic - without this I might not have known what to look for, and to point my "service adviser" in the right direction!
:thx

[SoCool]

I would like to thank all those who have posted on this thread. My GMC which has 60k was recently repaired at the dealership for this concern. The TSB was performed and the PCM was flashed. My vehicle was purchased last October as a certifed used vehicle from a local Cadillac dealer. It came with a 3/3000 mile warranty. During that time I was concerned about the a/c performance and brought it in to have it checked out. I was told the same thing as many of you have been told "it's normal, they all do that, etc." I was frustrated to say the least. When I found this site, the first thing I did was look for an a/c thread. When I learned what could possibly correct my problem I made an appointment to have it checked out once again. With a copy of the TSB in hand I went over everything with the Service Advisor. They checked it once again and said they "could not duplicate the concern". When I arrived home I immediately contacted GM customer care and explained all. Within a few minutes they told me to contact the dealer and make an appointment. They would cover it all. I just had it repaired today and I can honestly say there is a very big difference with the a/c system at idle. It now works like it should. I am glad GM decided to make me a happy customer. This experience will influence my next purchase of a vehicle. Once again thanks to all, without all the info I learned on this site I would not have been able to accomplish this!:)
:thx

[bigkeyz]

so socool what was the final outcome??

[SoCool]

The final outcome is the vehicle was repaired. The fan clutch assembly was replaced. The PCm was updated. The vehicle will blow cold air on first start-up while idling. I don't have to drive a block and a half to feel some cold air come out of the vent. This is a known issue. The repair should be provided to every owner that complains about it. I am glad I learned about it here.

[bullethole]

My situation is different if not opposite. After someone murdered my 03 LTZ in Dec. I finally bought an 02 LT w/44k on t he clock. The fan clutch was already acting up, so I bought a new one to replace when needed. It has been 100* plus here for the pas two weeks and the fan clutch stayed "engaged" more often and longer so I decided to replace it . Did it Sat. am. Up til now my a/c blew cold the minute the engine started. Now it will blow hot/warm/cold and then alternate between cool and cold. On a cold start up the fan does not even keep up with the pulley. The a/c cycles on and off. Then will eventually return to normal. I took it the dealer yesterday to get a flash. When I went to pick it up the mgr. said that GM's tech link determined that the PCM was up to date and would not download. He even tried some work arounds but Tech Link is pretty straight forward evidently.

Now this is a salvage vehicle that was totaled in Jan of this year in northern Va. I contacted the owner who told me there had been no warranty work needed. I talked to the selling/servicing dealer and got the service history and there had been no computer updates. The folks I bought it from fixed the cosmetic damage since the engine and trans were not near the damage. Besides these folks could not find the PCM if you painted it red.

Question! How can this be? Onstar can't do it can it? It seems to be getting better. I disconnected the battery overnite to try a relearn.

Any ideas?:confused:

[jmedlin6]

Does anyone have any problems with their A/C not working as well when they are stopped and it is pretty hot outside (90 degrees plus)?

My dealer is trying to get out of fixing, but I don't give up that easily.

My friend has an 05 and he just had his fixed for the same problem, he said they fixed some kind of vent that was letting outside air into the truck.

I figure if I go into the dealer and tell them what I want them to check, they'll fix it. Either that or they will just get sick of my persistance and just start replacing stuff till they get it (unlikely).

Anyway, some suggestions would be greatly appreciated! :D

I hope this information helps.

A/C - Slow to Cool in Hot/Humid Conditions

Bulletin No.: 04-01-38-019A

Date: June 07, 2005

TECHNICAL

Subject:
Intermittent Slow to Cool HVAC Performance Concerns in High Ambient Temperatures and/or High Humidity Conditions After Start Up, Especially at Low Engine Speeds (Install New Engine Cooling Fan Clutch)

Models:
2004-2005 Buick Rainier
2002-2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer Models
2002-2005 GMC Envoy Models
2002-2004 Oldsmobile Bravada
2005 Saab 9-7X

Supercede:

This bulletin is being revised to provide repair information for this customer concern. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-01-38-019 (Section 01 - HVAC).

Condition

Some customers may comment on slow to cool Air Conditioning (A/C) performance or high A/C outlet temperatures after start up or that the A/C system is not cooling sufficiently, especially in high ambient temperatures. This may be an intermittent condition and the performance of the Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) system may not meet customer expectations.

Cause

This condition may be caused by the response of the Electro-Viscous (EV) fan clutch and can be related to airflow across the condenser. This low A/C system performance can occur for longer periods of time if the vehicle is allowed to idle or is driven in low speed conditions. The response of the EV fan clutch will affect A/C system performance. As higher road speeds are attained, the increased airflow across the condenser will usually improve A/C system performance and the response of the EV fan clutch. This condition may be more evident after the vehicle has set for a period of time and can be difficult to duplicate. The condition may occur after the vehicle has set for as little as 10 minutes or as long as overnight. It is most prevalent intermittently during the first 15 minutes of operation.

Technicians are to replace the EV fan clutch with a new design part, P/N 15293048, on vehicles built before June 2005. Vehicles built in June 2005 may already have the updated EV fan clutch and it will not need to be replaced. For 2004 model year vehicles and older, update the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with a software calibration that was developed to improve coolant temperature gauge readings. This new calibration will cause the PCM to command small amounts of additional fan engagement to better control engine coolant temperatures. Model year 2005 vehicles already have this calibration installed. Refer to Corporate Service Bulletin Number 04-06-02-005 for more information about this calibration.

Proper diagnosis of any customer concern is essential. Refer to the Diagnostic Starting Point-Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning procedure in SI to begin a diagnosis of any HVAC concerns. Refer to the Diagnostic Starting Point-Engine Cooling procedure in SI to begin a diagnosis of any engine cooling or engine cooling fan concerns. If an attempt is made to diagnose an HVAC system concern, all parameters must be measured. As an example, both the low and high side refrigerant pressure readings must be measured. If only the low side pressure readings were measured, it would appear that the A/C compressor is disengaging at a higher pressure than expected. If both the low and high side pressures were being measured, it would be noted that the A/C compressor is probably disengaging due to the maximum high side pressure cut out point being reached. This occurs to protect the HVAC system from damage. The updated PCM software calibration along with the updated EV fan clutch will improve this condition due to increased air flow across the condenser. The new EV fan clutch has an increased minimum operating fan speed and an improved response time. Additional engine cooling fan noise can be expected with the updated PCM software calibrations.

The last area of customer concern is the operation of the HVAC system blower motor. For vehicles equipped with automatic control HVAC systems (RPO CJ2), the blower motor fan speed will be limited to 80% of maximum when the HVAC system is operating in the automatic mode. To obtain maximum blower motor speed, instruct the customer to manually adjust the blower motor speed to the highest setting.

[jmedlin6]

My AC Seems to be functioning normally, but I am getting an intermittent chirping noise when I turn on my AC. I noticed it only does it when I am in gear and doesn't do it when its in park. Sometimes when I engage my AC it chirps and sometimes it doesn't. Also when I am driving sometime it'll chirp (usuallly when I accelerate, but it does it out of random). Does anyone have any ideas what it could be. My factory warranty just went out 600 miles ago. BOOOO:confused:

[nhbouncer]

I just bought an '03 Envoy XL SLT with the 4.2L and I am getting the fan clutch "tick" noise that everyone talks about I took it back to the dealer and they said they could check the PCM and flash it well that update had been done already and yet it still "ticked" the dealer told me that the TSB said not to replace the fan clutch for the "tick" and sent me on my way. I have now also come to find after install of a remote start that my a/c doesn't work well at idle like stated here. I am curious if I take this other TSB that is provided in this thread to the dealer will they replace the fan clutch finally, and if so will they cover the cost or will I be charged for it. Thanks.

[Catfish_SS]

Anyone think I have any luck getting this done under warranty even though mines been up for about 3000 miles?:no:

[Super 88]

Anyone think I have any luck getting this done under warranty even though mines been up for about 3000 miles?:no:

I would say it depends on the service manager. Maybe if you talked nicely - who knows. One member got his tranny replaced for free at 56K miles on an 2003 TB EXT

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=29429

(post number 7)