OK, its almost boating season so I need help on some Tranny ideas

[ScarabEpic22]

OK, so boating season is coming up and I want to add a B&M Racing Super Cooler tranny cooler. That is the one mod I know for sure I will be doing.

Now, onto the other ideas:

B&M Transpak or shift improver kit OR Jet Performance Transperformance kit- Does anyone have either installed on any GM vehicle and if so do they help? Im leaning towards the Transpak because it has the shift improver kit plus some other parts that allow you to hold a certain gear.
My order so far for these kits:
1. B&M Transpak (http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=products&sid=3&cat=13&subcat=22)
2. B&M Shift Improver (http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=products&sid=3&cat=12&subcat=21)]
3. Jet Transperformance (http://www.jetchip.com/products.asp?pid=14491&make=22&model=10000#10000)
(if getting B&M, would be Heavy Duty model for towing purposes, but each kit comes with both types)

Billet Power Servo- Looking at the Jet Performance site, I see they have a performance billet 1-2 servo and a 4th/OD servo. The 1-2 is supposed to shift quicker (which would be nice) and the 4th/OD one is supposed to help with OD on the hwy while towing as it wont downshift and the TC wont unlock.
Powr Servos (http://www.jetchip.com/products.asp?pid=18557&make=22&model=10000#10000)

Deeper Tranny pan- Looking at a Summit Racing or B&M Racing deep tranny pan for the 4L60E tranny, they each add 3qts of fluid plus a drain plug (which would be nice, but I could always add one to my oe pan) plus I have heard are good for dissapating heat after long tows and such.
B&M Deep Tranny Pan (http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=products&sid=4&cat=21&subcat=&pid=39)

B&M Electronic ShiftPlus kit- similar to the Jet performance one but is much smaller to mount. I like the idea of it, but think that for the loads I actually tow it would be better to mod the tranny on a mechanical basis first.
ShiftPlus Electronic kit (http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=products&sid=3&cat=15)


Im looking for any and all comments on these parts and which would be the best combo to install in my TB along with the tranny cooler.

Thanks for the input guys!:D

[TBSS]

I would get a Transgo or Superior shift kit before I would ever allow a B&M part in my tranny. B&M's were the only thing in their day, but they have long been surpassed in technology by both Transgo and Superior. I've never heard of Jet.

When I had my Avalanche I pulled the stock 4L60E and put in a 4L65E to get the upgraded clutches and hardened parts, then I installed the following for added performance and longevity (for normal driving and for towing):

1) Transgo 4L60E shift kit
2) GM Corvette intermediate (1-2) servo
3) Superior billet overdrive (3-4) servo

If you want to go this way and are interested in where to find the parts, let me know and I'll give you the info. I did lots of research into the best way to bulletproof my transmission, because I strapped a 120HP blower onto my already hefty (6,000 lb.) beast. AFAIK, it is still going strong. :cool:

As far as a tranny pan, they're a waste of money. For whatever you would pay for one, you get maybe 2-3 degrees cooler fluild, which has zero effect on your transmission. The only reason I can see for changing the pan is if your stock one doesn't have a drain plug, and you want one.

A cooler on the other hand, is a very wise investment. B&M actually makes some good ones, but there are other vendors out there.

Alright, ScarabEpic22 says he wants more info, so here it is.

The vendor I bought from is an EBay guy named Oregon Performance Transmission. Here are the parts to buy for a basic 4L60E build-up:

Transgo HD2 Shift Kit: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRANSGO-4L60E-HD2-SHIFT-KIT-93-UP-TRANSMISSION-LS1-LT1_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQitemZ8053150 045QQtcZphoto)

Corvette Intermediate Servo: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CORVETTE-SERVO-700R4-4L60-4L60E-E-CAMARO-TRANSGO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQitemZ800 7016177QQtcZphoto)

Superior OD Servo: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/700R4-4L60E-BILLET-4TH-SUPERIOR-SUPER-SERVO-CORVETTE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQitemZ79 99898681QQtcZphoto)

Probably wouldn't hurt to change the filter and gasket while you're in there: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FILTER-GASKET-KIT-4L60E-4L60-E-TRANSMISSION-1997-UP-2x4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQitemZ8007016 027QQtcZphoto)

And since you will be drilling holes in the separator plate, you should get an upgraded one: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRANSGO-4L60E-SEPARATOR-PLATE-96UP-TRANSMISSION-LS1-LT1_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQitemZ7999945 836QQtcZphoto)

************************************

If you want to be completely thorough, add the following parts (not necessary, but if you will be beating on the tranny or just want to be extra thorough, it's a good idea):

Aluminum 1-2 Accumulator Piston: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4L60E-1-2-ALUMINUM-ACCUMULATOR-PISTON-SMALL-PIN-4L65E_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQitemZ79998 98344QQtcZphoto)

Aluminum Forward Clutch Accumulator Piston: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4L60E-FORWARD-CLUTCH-ALUMINUM-ACCUMULATOR-PISTON-4L65E_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQitemZ80154 22566QQtcZphoto)

Lubegard: Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LUBEGARD-TH350-TH400-700R4-2004R-AOD-727-4L60E-4L80E_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46104QQitemZ79999 44809QQtcZphoto)

Plus your cooler, etc.

************************************

You can combine shipping with this guy if you order all the parts at once.

Let me know if you have any other questions. :thumbsup:

[MTPockets]

..As far as a tranny pan, they're a waste of money. For whatever you would pay for one, you get maybe 2-3 degrees cooler fluild, which has zero effect on your transmission. The only reason I can see for changing the pan is if your stock one doesn't have a drain plug, and you want one..

That's true, the addition of a drain plug is nice. A cpl qts added ATF capacity is nice too. More volume doesn't dirty up as quick. Thing with all these tranny mods is, by the time you are done paying up for all of'em, you could have bought 2 more 4L60E's!:duh:

G/luck
Joel

[jay boy]

I put in the corvette servo with good results. For the money this is a nice mod! Put one in my 00 s10 also Worked better possibly because no electronic throttle that is closed to soften shifts. On the S10 the servo fit right in. On the TB I had to drop down the back of the tranny to clear the side of the floorboard! (05 two wheel drive) It was very close to comming out without dropping the tranny. Some trucks might clear I don't know. Plesae tell me how good those electronic shift kits work if you get one. The first thing I am going to have done on my tune is have the line pressure raised to 1,000,000 lbs! The single best thing to do for trans life is a COOLER! I tow a boat also so I know what you mean! Jay

[ScarabEpic22]

That's true, the addition of a drain plug is nice. A cpl qts added ATF capacity is nice too. More volume doesn't dirty up as quick. Thing with all these tranny mods is, by the time you are done paying up for all of'em, you could have bought 2 more 4L60E's!:duh:

G/luck
Joel
Well, I just checked on a price for a pan, looking at about $160+, so I think I am much better off buying the shift kit, both servos, and the cooler for about the same price.


And, how much does the 4th gear servo add on top of the corvette one? Better OD performance, right and the ability to tow in OD? I hope so because at 70MPH my TB is pretty loud in 3rd because of my exhaust. Dont really want to have to listen to that for 6 hours if I can tow in OD on the flats of Eastern WA. I will still use 3rd for going up the pass and hills though.

Also, that new seperator plate looks really good, but what do they actually do in a tranny? Sorry, but I havent heard of it before, although Im pretty sure you have to drill some holes or sumthing (thanks for the heads up), but I would do it to the aftermarket one and then install it.

Those acumulator pistons look good too, and for the extra 20 bucks I might as well put them in.


Final question, even though Im running Amsoil Synthetic ATF (and will do a complete flush when I put these things in), should I add the Lubeguard? Im not a fan of oil additives, and that is one of the reasons I switched to Amsoil ATF.

I think I will be able to save a lot on shipping because I will be ordering a lot of things soon from these guys.

[TBSS]

If you don't have a drainplug and want one, I think he has a drainplug for about $10. That way you can get the advantage of the plug without having to buy a whole new pan for that money.

The Vette servo is for your 1-2 shift and the Superior OD servo is for your 3-4 shift, so you need both. The Superior part will enable you to hold in OD longer, which is definitely what you want when towing.

The separator plate goes between the valve body and the underside of the transmission. The size of the feed holes is a determinant of line pressure, line pressure is a determinant of shift quickness and firmness, and shift quickness and firmness is a significant determinant of transmission life.

I would get the new plate as it is thicker and more durable, plus it comes with two new paper gaskets (one on each side of the plate). If you attempt to peel the old gaskets off the old separator plate, drill the old separator plate, then try to reassemble using the old gaskets, you may have problems. Best to go new, IMO.

The Lubegard is not necessary with synthetic ATF. FWIW, I've heard that synthetic ATF is not good for these trannies, they cause the clutches to slip (synthetic is 'too slippery' according to one expert I spoke with). But I've also heard that once you've gone with synthetic, you have to stay with it, you can't go back.

Personally, I've never used synthetic and likely never will, just because of what I've been told. But I also really don't know if synthetic is bad - I just know you can't go wrong with traditional.

[ScarabEpic22]

Thanks for the info, havent had a problem with the synthetic and its been in for 10K and towed with it half of last summer. Should probably make sure it is still full in there:undecided .

And, the once-you-switch-you-cant-go-back line is not true, you can easily start over with regular. (Heck most of the fluid in my tranny is still the oe fluid, I just dropped the pan and replaced the filter, not a complete flush like I will do soon. The AMSOIL ATF is fully compatible with regular fluid too.)

I think I will just get a plug kit for like $8-10 and not worry about it.

[TBSS]

Thanks for the info, havent had a problem with the synthetic and its been in for 10K and towed with it half of last summer. Should probably make sure it is still full in there:undecided .

And, the once-you-switch-you-cant-go-back line is not true, you can easily start over with regular. (Heck most of the fluid in my tranny is still the oe fluid, I just dropped the pan and replaced the filter, not a complete flush like I will do soon. The AMSOIL ATF is fully compatible with regular fluid too.)
Shows how little I know about tranny fluid. :laugh:

[jay boy]

TBSS would you be kind enough to tell me where the overdrive billet servo goes in the trans? Does it go farther inside the same housing as the Corvette servo that I have allready installed? That was on the right side about 1/2 way down the side of the case. If it goes in the same place only farther inside I don't think I will put it in. Don't want to drop down trans twice! Thanks Jay

[ScarabEpic22]

TBSS would you be kind enough to tell me where the overdrive billet servo goes in the trans? Does it go farther inside the same housing as the Corvette servo that I have allready installed? That was on the right side about 1/2 way down the side of the case. If it goes in the same place only farther inside I don't think I will put it in. Don't want to drop down trans twice! Thanks Jay

From the install guide I found online, it goes on after the Corvette servo.

And, you said you had to drop the tranny for clearance reasons? Can you elaborate, ie how long did it take and what had to be done? Thanks!

[jay boy]

Ok here goes! You push in on the cover and pry out the big lock ring out of the case. This lets you get the cover off There is a O ring on the cover so you may have to bounce the cover a few times to get it to come out enough to get ahold of. Maybe spray a little oil around it first (I did'nt). After the cover is off reach inside and pull out the servo assembly. This is where I ran into trouble. there was not enough room for the assembly with the pin to slide out without hitting the floor of the truck. Its REAL close to being enough. In fact on my S10 I made it. (barely). What I did next was to put a jack under the trans and unbolt the crossmember drop the jack down just enough to get the old servo and pin asseembly out. 2 or 3 inches I think. Be careful how you put the jack on and don't drop any more than you have to because many things are moving and something might hit. Once out change the parts and put the assy back in. I only lost about 2oz of fluid. Jay

[ScarabEpic22]

Ok here goes! You push in on the cover and pry out the big lock ring out of the case. This lets you get the cover off There is a O ring on the cover so you may have to bounce the cover a few times to get it to come out enough to get ahold of. Maybe spray a little oil around it first (I did'nt). After the cover is off reach inside and pull out the servo assembly. This is where I ran into trouble. there was not enough room for the assembly with the pin to slide out without hitting the floor of the truck. Its REAL close to being enough. In fact on my S10 I made it. (barely). What I did next was to put a jack under the trans and unbolt the crossmember drop the jack down just enough to get the old servo and pin asseembly out. 2 or 3 inches I think. Be careful how you put the jack on and don't drop any more than you have to because many things are moving and something might hit. Once out change the parts and put the assy back in. I only lost about 2oz of fluid. Jay

Thanks for that info!!! It will really help me (and others Im sure) out!!


And, did you have to use tranny lube or anything when you installed the servo?

[jay boy]

All I did was wipe on a little atf on the Orings. Something I don't quite understand, the od billet servo goes into the same place as the corvette servo? what do you do , pull out old servo THEN dig deeper to replace parts with od billet then put in corvette servo with pin? IF I rember it did not look like there was anything else to take out once I pulled out the old 1-2 servo and pin. Icould very easly be wrong. Jay
.

[TBSS]

All I did was wipe on a little atf on the Orings. Something I don't quite understand, the od billet servo goes into the same place as the corvette servo? what do you do , pull out old servo THEN dig deeper to replace parts with od billet then put in corvette servo with pin? IF I rember it did not look like there was anything else to take out once I pulled out the old 1-2 servo and pin. Icould very easly be wrong. Jay
.
The Vette servo goes in first, then the billet OD servo goes in after, right before you secure the whole assembly with the C-ring. Part of the billet OD servo serves as the new cover for the whole assembly. If you look at the directions with the Sonnax/Superior OD servo (whichever one you get), you will see what I am talking about.

[ScarabEpic22]

The Vette servo goes in first, then the billet OD servo goes in after, right before you secure the whole assembly with the C-ring. Part of the billet OD servo serves as the new cover for the whole assembly. If you look at the directions with the Sonnax/Superior OD servo (whichever one you get), you will see what I am talking about.
Cool, thanks again!

And, which brand is better, or is it a toss-up as usual?:laugh:

[TBSS]

Cool, thanks again!

And, which brand is better, or is it a toss-up as usual?:laugh:
I got the Superior part because it was recommended to me by a very experienced tranny person. I can't speak to the Sonnax part.

[jay boy]

Thanks! I get it now! It would be much better to do both at once. I have never seen the directions for the billet servo as the corvette is all that I put in. Its also been about a year ago. Jay

[ScarabEpic22]

I got the Superior part because it was recommended to me by a very experienced tranny person. I can't speak to the Sonnax part.
Will do.


And, also TBSS recommended to me to:
Remember to put ZERO WASHERS in the 1-2 accumulator when you do the shift kit. They give you 3 washers, but you do not want to put any of them in with a stock torque converter, otherwise you will be rattling your teeth loose with the 1-2 shift.

[ScarabEpic22]

OK, thanks for the help guys!

Yesterday I ordered the parts (shift kit, both servos, acculumulator pate, a cooler, and the other parts) from Oregon Performance Transmissions. Brian was great to work with!!

So, the next week I will be spending a lot of time under the TB with my camera taking lots of pics for how to's!! Look for one for the servos, shift kit, and the tranny cooler at the minimum.:D

[TBSS]

Excellente! :cool:

[ScarabEpic22]

Excellente! :cool:
Yea, and guess what, the parts are here TODAY!!!!

Im amazed, I know UPS from Salem to Seattle (about 300mi) is usually 2 days for ground, but I dont know how I got the package at 12 noon today!!!:eek:


I also ordered a tranny cooler from him too, a Long TRU-COOL, as its the same one as the B&M Racing one (Long makes the B&M ones) for $46. So, I saved 4 bucks on the cooler plus like 8 more from the no shipping/handling fees!!!:yes:

[ScarabEpic22]

OK, made an Amsoil order yesterday for another 2.5gal of ATF and another case of oil for the TB. Was going to get a Wix filter from the Amsoil Dist center, but the filters were in WI, so I went to Schucks and got a Fram replacement.

Tomorrow I am planning on installing as much as I can in the tranny and the cooler too.


The cooler isnt the exact one I wanted from B&M, but it is close enough, so I dont really care.

I hope everything goes okay, and now that I finally got my GM software up and running, I have diagrams on how to remove the tranny parts!!!


The last question I have is, as I am looking at the electrical connectors for the tranny to engine, there is a temp sender output from the tranny (I can verify because can get temp through OBDII port). I wonder what inexpensive guage (not the Interceptor) can read the voltage and give a temp? I really dont want to have to cut up tranny lines for a temp guage if there is already an electrical output.

[TBSS]

OK, made an Amsoil order yesterday for another 2.5gal of ATF and another case of oil for the TB. Was going to get a Wix filter from the Amsoil Dist center, but the filters were in WI, so I went to Schucks and got a Fram replacement.

Tomorrow I am planning on installing as much as I can in the tranny and the cooler too.


The cooler isnt the exact one I wanted from B&M, but it is close enough, so I dont really care.

I hope everything goes okay, and now that I finally got my GM software up and running, I have diagrams on how to remove the tranny parts!!!


The last question I have is, as I am looking at the electrical connectors for the tranny to engine, there is a temp sender output from the tranny (I can verify because can get temp through OBDII port). I wonder what inexpensive guage (not the Interceptor) can read the voltage and give a temp? I really dont want to have to cut up tranny lines for a temp guage if there is already an electrical output.
Yes, that temp sender is hot, you can use it. :yes:

Where would you mount the gauge? Autometer makes some nice gauges, as does Dakota Digital.

[udlooz]

Just wanted to mention, I've destroyed 2 4L60E's using that B&M Shift+ Electronic. It wears out the pump and then they wont shift right.

[MTPockets]

Just wanted to mention, I've destroyed 2 4L60E's using that B&M Shift+ Electronic. It wears out the pump and then they wont shift right.

:iagree: That's the price you will pay for tricking out an AT. Shortened lifespan.

Joel

[TBSS]

:iagree: That's the price you will pay for tricking out an AT. Shortened lifespan.

Joel
Wrong. That's the price you pay for installing a 1970's era shift kit in a modern transmission. B&M's shift kit is made for the 700R4 and they are selling it as a 4L60/65/70E shift kit. Shame on them for being greedy and lazy, and shame on you for not doing your research.

If you properly install a Transgo or Superior shift kit you will be rewarded with longer transmission life, not shorter. Long, lazy shifts (which are made that way on purpose for 'driver comfort' but are actually slipping bands) will be firmed and quickened up so there is less wear and tear, thus longer life.

[ScarabEpic22]

Yes, that temp sender is hot, you can use it. :yes:

Where would you mount the gauge? Autometer makes some nice gauges, as does Dakota Digital.
I need to figure out what type of guage I want, would prefer a needle one to match the cluster, but it would get mounted either where Andrew has his Interceptor mounted or I will try and fab up an A-pillar mount.


And, by the looks of the Transgo shift kit I got, it appears to be much more detailed and upgrade more parts than the B&M one. And, the instructions are better too (not perfect, but better than B&Ms).

[TBSS]

I need to figure out what type of guage I want, would prefer a needle one to match the cluster, but it would get mounted either where Andrew has his Interceptor mounted or I will try and fab up an A-pillar mount.


And, by the looks of the Transgo shift kit I got, it appears to be much more detailed and upgrade more parts than the B&M one. And, the instructions are better too (not perfect, but better than B&Ms).
I'm so glad I was monitoring this forum....that B&M actually causes trans failures, whereas the Transgo is proven to prolong transmission life. One of the best tranny builders in the country (Chuck of Finish Line Transmission or FLT) recommends the Transgo kit and installs it in all of his builds. Here is his last endorsement at Performance Trucks:

I would recommend the transgo hd-2 kit with the vette servo for towing/mild performance application. If you want a more performance setup then I recommend the sonnax 2nd super hold servo that we have displayed on our web page. It's a much better servo for the trans and the money IMO than the solid billet (no cushion spring) 2nd servos on the market, These servos also have a tendency to break bands and sun shells over a period of time from what we've seen over the years. Not only are they hard on the parts mentioned above, The harsh coastdown 3-2 shift that you get with these servos is annoying to me. We build all our 60's & 65's with either the vette servo or the sonnax masterpiece period. The sonnax super hold servo is also available for OD too if desired.

Chuck

[LineNoise]

Does doing a shift kit screw with your mileage?

[jay boy]

Will the computer "learn" that the trans is shifting firmer and try to compensate over time? will the shifts get soft again the way a Jet chip "goes away? I would like to try the transgo kit but don't want to waste the effort by having the line pressure lowered by the tcm because of firm shifts. Jay

[TBSS]

Does doing a shift kit screw with your mileage?
No, if anything, it will keep you in the powerband longer and could increase mileage a little.

Will the computer "learn" that the trans is shifting firmer and try to compensate over time? will the shifts get soft again the way a Jet chip "goes away? I would like to try the transgo kit but don't want to waste the effort by having the line pressure lowered by the tcm because of firm shifts. Jay
That's a really good question that I don't know the answer to 100%. Ideally you would want to remove some torque management, but I understand that most people here cannot do that as they do not have access to programming. Keep in mind that unlike a 'chip' or any kind of software programming, a shift kit is a set of mechanical adjustments that cannot be compensated for (or 'learned' around).

The 4L60 HD-2 kit is meant for a stock transmission with stock programming, so it will work. Will it be optimum? No - like I said above, ideally you will want to remove some of the software defense mechanisms like torque management, once the kit is installed. Will it still work? Yes, having this shift kit will be much better than not having the shift kit with regards to firmness of shifts, holding in overdrive when towing, tranny life, etc.

Let's see how ScarabEpic's install works; I'm sure he will have some news to report very shortly. :yes:

[ScarabEpic22]

Yea, Im planning on doing my install today and will take as many pics as I can in the timeframe I have.

(gotta get a good nights sleep before the install, right TBSS??:laugh: )

I will also report about towing in OD after the install, unfortunately I dont have a baseline towing, but I do have on for around town driving.

I might try and remove some TQ management when I get my tune completely worked out, but for now it will be going in completely stock.

Will post the happenings of later today!!!:D

[jay boy]

Thank you TBSS. JAy

[ScarabEpic22]

Wellll, kinda took longer than I hoped for, so I havent actually dropped the pan yet. There is a little more modding to the front end than I originally though, but I just need to screw the cooler into the frame and then I can move on.

Work stops now though, gotta see them Mariners play!!!:D

Thanks again guys, and I have pics for the tranny cooler how to and will have the shift kit ones tomorrow!

[ScarabEpic22]

OK, so I finished installing after my last post, but until last night I still didnt have the servos in. After about 4 hours of messing around (stupid EVAP container) I was able to get them out and the new ones in. Man, the 1-2 shift is perfect now!!!

Hint, remove the heat shield near the cat and then remove the pass tire. You can get to the servo cover much easier that way and you dont have to pull the cat pipe.

It still isnt going into 4th right, gonna have to look into that soon, but other than that it is perfect and fast!!!:D :D

[lifted4x4astro]

Any update on the tranny cooler install? I tried to install a Long stacked plate 11"x11"x1.5" and it will not fit! :x I would like to see what size everyone else uses and where it's mounted. The TB is an '05 LS 4WD.

[davidrab]

Any update on the tranny cooler install? I tried to install a Long stacked plate 11"x11"x1.5" and it will not fit! :x I would like to see what size everyone else uses and where it's mounted. The TB is an '05 LS 4WD.

Don't I know it. That cooler doesn't look like it will mount anywhere:(
Did you find any answers?

Looks like they have this one:
SuperCooler 16,000 GVW (11'' x 5.75'' x .75'')
I wonder how well that would cool.

ScarabEpic22,

What size was yours and how did you mount it?

Thanks,

Dave

[ScarabEpic22]

Don't I know it. That cooler doesn't look like it will mount anywhere:(
Did you find any answers?

Looks like they have this one:
SuperCooler 16,000 GVW (11'' x 5.75'' x .75'')
I wonder how well that would cool.

ScarabEpic22,

What size was yours and how did you mount it?

Thanks,

Dave

Ill take a pic once my digi cams charged up. I ended up modding the front clip (not the grill, but part of the support) to get it to fit how I wanted. I dont think anyone would really want to do it on their brand new SS this way, but I will show ya how I did mine.