Removing torque management Ya or Na?

[tBSSOldblue]

I have been hearing opinions all across the board about whether its smart to remove torque management completly. Will somebody that knows about transmissions please help. Im not looking for a simple yes remove it or no youll nuke your trans. I would like an explanation. Thanks!

[GTPprix]

Heh I've seen the validation reports.. we definately wont do it lol

[tBSSOldblue]

What part of the transmission is put under the stress when u remove torque management. Is it the bands? What parts are prone to failure when you remove it. I know u have seen the validation reports, just trying to get an answer that ur none tranny tech wouldnt know.

[TonyGXP]

Heh I've seen the validation reports.. we definately wont do it lol

what do you think is a good % to remove? I know people that had done it (removed 100%) in their full size Pickups, Tahoe's, etc. and never had any issues for years..if you drive it normal and not beat the piss out of it does it still affect the vehicle? my DIC is reading 14.6, mostly cty driving, except for the track I never even floor this thing..I always assumed the torque management was in there to protect the truck agains all out abuse, not just some full on blasts every once in a while..
Thanks for ay input..

[fotowork]

What does it mean "We've seen the validation report" mean? That is hear say or like an intel report about WMD. Is the transmision strong? What are the specfic results from not reducung power during a shift? GM says the tranmision is heavy duty. I would think that it would take the power without catastrophic failure but maybe a little faster clutch wear would be a factor

Bill

[ltz03]

good question!! how much hp and torque is the tranny rated for??? will heavy mods kill the tranny and driveline?????

[Kybuilt]

...there ain't no torque management, neither. This is a message board myth that GM's corporate mis-communication goons have planted. It encourages the notion that GM's engineers are so smart they can "hide" excess power from us ignorant power abusers.:yes:
You know I'm right!

[ltz03]

hey man what ever you smokin you better pass it around!!! are you a programmer ask any of them they have seen the way the pcm's and tcm's are programmed and will tell you that there is TORQUE MANAGEMENT!!!!..YA and pass it to the left

[TonyGXP]

oh, trust me there's torque management, if there wasn't I should be able to smolder my rear tires with this much power, a steep 1st gear & 4.10's!!!! and I can only get a "chirp" on launch now and then..

[ghoster]

oh, trust me there's torque management, if there wasn't I should be able to smolder my rear tires with this much power, a steep 1st gear & 4.10's!!!! and I can only get a "chirp" on launch now and then..

:rotfl: :rotfl: I get a chirp on take-off every now and then too!:raspberry

[EnvoyXL]

I had smoke rollin off mine today, but then again I was at a stop sign on a steep hill and making a right hand turn. A couple days ago I pulled out into traffic on flat and level ground making a left and I stomped on it to get across traffic and into the turn lane. Luckily there was just enough room between cars caoming from the right because I slid the rear end completly sideways across the turn lane and two more lanes to the right hand lane. Scared the poo outta me. I am starting to wonder if something is wrong with my truck because I never had this much power before to actually slide the ruck or even spin the tires. A few weeks ago I actualy got pulled over for smoking the tires when I took off. I was at a stop sign going straight and I stepped on the gas to jump across traffic. It barely moved so I floored it. I guess I was just spinning the tires. I didnt get a ticket because the cop had a trailblazer and was impressed that I got my tires to even spin, let alone smoke the darn things. I went back to see if the ground was wet at the stop sign, but it was totally dry. The asphaly was kinda grayish colored like maybe there was some salt buildup on the ground from the snow plows a couple weeks before.

[ghoster]

I can usually light up A tire whenever I want. Its especially easy on a turn of course. I can easily get mine sideways on take-off in a turn. Kinda fun every now and then. My wife calls it my Dukes of Hazzard take offs.:D

[EnvoyXL]

My girlfriend was like "Holly S**t, I didnt think you could do that in this truck" Now she doesnt drive it anymore because I imagine she has tried doing it before and thats why she though you couldnt do it. Only I am allowed to drive my truck like a mad man. I pay for it, I built it, and I appreciate and respect it. I have been trying to get her to dump some money in her car so she can appreciate it more.

[ghoster]

My girlfriend was like "Holly S**t, I didnt think you could do that in this truck" Now she doesnt drive it anymore because I imagine she has tried doing it before and thats why she though you couldnt do it. Only I am allowed to drive my truck like a mad man. I pay for it, I built it, and I appreciate and respect it. I have been trying to get her to dump some money in her car so she can appreciate it more.

thats funny....my wife hates when I drive like that. You can just imagine what she was like in Fishunters SS. That was totally hilarious.:D

[EnvoyXL]

My girlfriend drives like an idiot. Every time she does something stupid I just tell her "That's why I dont let you drive my truck anymore" Sometimes I will warn her about something and she still does it and then regrets it. The other day I said "arent you going to turn into the driveway?" and she said "yeah" and then bottomed her car out pulling in. She said she didnt relize the driveway that she has pulled into at least 20 times was more like a curb. She tailgates really bad and I dont like rock chips in the glass or paint. When I first got my truck we were following a friend in a Dodge Ram down the highway. We knew exactly how to get where we were going so I said to her that she needed to get off his ass. Just then there were some huge chunks of dried mud and rock bouncing on the road in front of us. They fell off the underside of his truck. I yelled at her to get back, but she just let them hit the truck. I totally flipped out. She said there was nothing she could do. I said that she could have started my not tailgating, then she could have either changed lanes or hit the brakes when she saw them bouncing on the ground right in front of us. It never ends, Last month she was allowed to drive me around when I broke my ankle. She dropped me at the door to Target and she went to park. When she got inside she told me how proud I would be because she got a good spot right next to the cart rack and left plenty of room to fit carts inbetween the truck and the cart rack so nobody would ding me. I imediatly hobbled back outside, reparked my truck in a safe spot and went back inside. She just doesnt understand the rules I guess and how to respect what others work for. It really pisses me off sometimes. She has never bought a car before, they have always been given to her from family members. She needs to go buy a new $30,000 vehicle and then dump another $10,000 into it and she will realize where I am coming from. OK, I am done with my RANT!!!

What were we talking about? Ohh yeah, Torque management......Needless to say, I can get pretty torqued, but I manage it well.:mad:

[Kybuilt]

I had smoke rollin off mine today... A few weeks ago I actualy got pulled over for smoking the tires when I took off... :yes:See, I toldya there's no such thing as TM. (I thought that would get somebody riled up:D)

[Valkyrierider]

Heh I've seen the validation reports.. we definately wont do it lol

Let's get back on Target Here.

Enlighten us more oh Grand Master Guru. He asked for more than a yes or no answer....

[John Skiba]

Heh I've seen the validation reports.. we definately wont do it lol

Did anyone mention that it take LONGER for a trans to complete a shift under full power when things are slipping inside? Yes, the computer can reduce power, complete the shift under less load, reapply full power faster than a full power slip fest...

(non purpose built trans)

[wareagle8006]

I once smoked my tires for a half a city block once after leaving a stop sign, turning right.

[deucepjd]

How does swapping the torque converter address this issue?

What are the pros and cons?

[vetruck]

Whats up with this? TM, etc. If there is too much power for the tranny along with the trucks weight then give us a better tranny, don't electronicly neuter the one we have.

[John Skiba]

Whats up with this? TM, etc. If there is too much power for the tranny along with the trucks weight then give us a better tranny, don't electronicly neuter the one we have.

It doesn't mean it's a weak tranny or can't handle the power. The idea is to put less stress on the tranny so that it can do it's job QUICKER (shift).
What happens to a stick shift car when you rev the engine high and drop the clutch? Have you ever seen anyone do it and then seen the smoke and smell it? In an automatic tranny if you can reduce the force and let the clutch or band engage (clamp) then the shift will complet in a shorter time with less stress on the parts involved. Can you picture it? How about this, when you were a kid and flipped you bike upside down and spun the tire and then tried to grab it to stop it, was it instaneous stop or did you loose a little skin? ;) Now imagine trying to grab it as someone is still spinning the pedals and applying force to the the spinning tire... lots of skin... :p

[deucepjd]

Any input on the previous question?:confused:

What it the impact of swapping the torque converter and what are the advantages and disadvantages?

Thanks

[vetruck]

It doesn't mean it's a weak tranny or can't handle the power. The idea is to put less stress on the tranny so that it can do it's job QUICKER (shift).

Been around plenty of fast automatics and they could spin the tires right off the wheels if they wanted to w/o power braking and shifted fine so I'm not sure I understand.

[/QUOTE]What happens to a stick shift car when you rev the engine high and drop the clutch? Have you ever seen anyone do it and then seen the smoke and smell it?[/QUOTE]

No I have never seen smoke from a clutch thats in good condition but I have smelled burnt clutch from riding it or slipping.

[/QUOTE]In an automatic tranny if you can reduce the force and let the clutch or band engage (clamp) then the shift will complet in a shorter time with less stress on the parts involved. Can you picture it?[/QUOTE]

Yes I can picture it and thats why I'm wondering why we don't have a tranny that can take what the motor has.

[TonyGXP]

I remember driving plenty of Vettes, Z28's, GN's etc. that would spin the tires into 2nd, some even 3rd...and they lasted a LONG time..not sure why all this Torque management is in place..well, actually I am sure because GM wants them to last longer in the ones that are abused..

[clutchNthrottle]

I remember driving plenty of Vettes, Z28's, GN's etc. that would spin the tires into 2nd, some even 3rd...and they lasted a LONG time..not sure why all this Torque management is in place..well, actually I am sure because GM wants them to last longer in the ones that are abused..

Cause these autos are fragile egg-like POS. I had my 4L60E on my '02 C1500 rebuilt twice within 20k miles and it even had the OE tranny cooler. The 2-4 band went at 37k then again at 57k. That's how I ended up with my TBSS now. I never abused or beat on it, but I didn't baby the thing either. The TH350 in my '78 EL Camino SS (wanabe), now THAT thing got abused and never missed a beat!

[vetruck]

This irritates me also because the little research I did before buying this truck revealed that it came with a "bullet proof four speed." I still hope these people were right but it sounds more like it's barely BB proof.

[steined]

You are probably worried over nothing.

If you think these transmissions are weak, you should come over to the FWD 4T65HD world. With 3800 SC motors putting out a stock (and underrated) 280 ft/-lbs of torque in an on and off manner, these things take abuse. Now sure some people had them fail, but I never understood how. I ran consistent mid 13s in that car with a 3.25" pully conservatively putting out 320 - 350 ft.-lbs of torque. I had that car new until 68K miles and the trans never skipped a beat. I was a regular at the track too.

On the otherhand, the way the TBSS thing shifts stock and even modded, I do wonder a little about how long they'll last. I really doubt people will be breaking hard parts in these. But with the huge ratio difference between 1 and 2, you almost HAVE to have some torque management in this transmission. That's simply a design trade-off.

As for the torque management from a launch, well that's beyond me. My GTP could smoke em all day long if I wanted and this thing is a bitch to get em going. I suppose that isn't all that bad, but I can't help but think there is a little left on the table in terms of performance and a lot in terms of showing off!! :eek:

[TonyGXP]

you're not gonna believe this but....NO Torque Management and I can only "spin" them maybe 5ft?? is this truck setup that well?? I am starting to believe the 4.10's are playing a big role in this truck just taking off..I switched from 3.73 to 4.10 in my 84' Z28 and that car spun less and ran worse?? makes you wonder if we throw some 3.73's in there what it'd do??

[TrailblazerSS]

you're not gonna believe this but....NO Torque Management and I can only "spin" them maybe 5ft?? is this truck setup that well?? I am starting to believe the 4.10's are playing a big role in this truck just taking off..I switched from 3.73 to 4.10 in my 84' Z28 and that car spun less and ran worse?? makes you wonder if we throw some 3.73's in there what it'd do??

Remember you have 30" tires with the 4.10 on the TB SS. That's nearly the same final drive ratio as a F-body with 25.5" tires and a 3.42 rear end.

[vetruck]

I'm not real concerned about spinning the tires but I would like to be sure that all of my 395 horses and 400 ft/lbs (- parasitic loss) is getting to the ground. I hope the trannys are strong and the failures we've heard about are just normal flukes but it will be dissapointing if we find out that the torque management is imperitive for the tranny to hold up.

[Z06RT]

These tires are to expensive to spin!!!!:crazy:

[SSportWagon]

Is the TBSS the only GM vehicle running the 4L70E ???

It would be interesting to hear if any other non-TBSS's are having 4L70e problems too

...definately should have had the 6L80e or even the 4L80e.

[clutchNthrottle]

Is the TBSS the only GM vehicle running the 4L70E ???

It would be interesting to hear if any other non-TBSS's are having 4L70e problems too

...definately should have had the 6L80e or even the 4L80e.

As far as I could dertermine in my pre-purchase research, the 70 was made for and currently can only be found in the TBSS. Mind you, I'm not an authority on this subject, but I know just enough to be dangerous...

[Obsessed]

Every time I see a review and they mention the transmission, they state that it's an all new heavy duty transmission, so I assume it's not being used in anything else.

[TonyGXP]

Remember you have 30" tires with the 4.10 on the TB SS. That's nearly the same final drive ratio as a F-body with 25.5" tires and a 3.42 rear end.

good point, but I have driven bigger trucks with 255's+ on them w/o 4.10's that do more damage to the tires with 70less HP/tq....WTF?

although I guess it's better this way..otherwise we would be screamin GM shouldn't fixed this TRACTION problem if we spun all the way through 1st!!:D

[ttdolson]

The 4L70E-HD transmission is also used in the fullsize pickups that have the "GMC MAX" engine option in them. Basically a 6.0 escalade engine in a regular 1/2 ton pickup. It's a new option in 06' and maybe in 05'.

[vetruck]

Well thats a lot of engine there too so we will see if they are having any problems soon enough. I assume they would have the TM also right?

[clutchNthrottle]

The 4L70E-HD transmission is also used in the fullsize pickups that have the "GMC MAX" engine option in them. Basically a 6.0 escalade engine in a regular 1/2 ton pickup. It's a new option in 06' and maybe in 05'.

oh yeah, he's right. I was looking at the Vortech Max and SSS before I found out the TBSS existed. I even asked the sales guy what tranny they came with, of course he had no friggin idea, he just wanted to show me how the power seats worked...:rolleyes: You can get the 1/2 tons with the M30 - 4L60E (garbage), M32 - 4L65E (not much better from my understanding) or the M70 - 4L70E, depending on how you wade through GM's quagmire of engine options and trim packages. I don't understand how which rims you want has any bearing on the engine package you selected or CD player...:sleepy:

[clutchNthrottle]

Well thats a lot of engine there too so we will see if they are having any problems soon enough. I assume they would have the TM also right?

Yep, they should call it Fun Managment... :cry:

[1BADSS]

good point, but I have driven bigger trucks with 255's+ on them w/o 4.10's that do more damage to the tires with 70less HP/tq....WTF?

although I guess it's better this way..otherwise we would be screamin GM shouldn't fixed this TRACTION problem if we spun all the way through 1st!!:D

Possibly didn't have 20" wheels?..I'm sure there is a big difference right there.

[vetruck]

Actually the OD would probably be similar since our sidewalls are considered low profile for a truck.

[TIM B]

How do you remove the torque management? Do you have to have a programmer? :undecided

[Liquiddi]

The diablo does not have it in it to take this out. I would guess Vector tune is the only way to get rid of the Torque management.

[ScarabEpic22]

How do you remove the torque management? Do you have to have a programmer? :undecided
Have to tune it out. Diablo cant touch the TCM yet, so it cant remove it all.

[clutchNthrottle]

How do you remove the torque management?

I thought it was under the fusebox cover? :confused: Dam, I better put this thing back in! :o

;) :D