Just got my Diabo Programmer...

[Liquiddi]

All I can say is this thing is nice. I wanted the Vector but when it came down to it I like the ability to change things back and forth. Now to the Tuner. I have to say this thing really did make a differance. The throttle response is a lot better. This is the way the truck should have been from the get go. Power feels better. I'm sure this thing has given the truck 20 extra rwhp. Would I recommend it?? Heck yes. I've been modifying jet ski's for years now and there is now way you can simply add this much HP for $320. It's a great easy buy. The one thing I really like about it is it seems to hold the gears better. The shift points are correct now. As far as fuel mileage I won't really know until I take it on a trip. Right now the mileage is going way down because I have my foot in it everywhere. Can't wait to add the CAI to the truck.

[GTPprix]

How are the shift points better, just curious mainly because It doesnt do anything with the transmission? ;) Only part that kinda sucks is it cant tune for the CAI either :(

Glad your happy obviously thats all that matters! :D

[Liquiddi]

Holds the gears better. It does shift better. I don't care what anyone says. Maybe it doesn't shift tighter or whatnot but it holds the gears better. I understand the Vector is a better system it's just not for me so please try to keep the flamming to a minimum. This thing for $320 to be able to easily plug it in and go is a dream. That's all.

[GTPprix]

No I'm not trying to flame you just trying to understand how something that has no control over any transmission parameter operates thats all man!

[Liquiddi]

well straight from the Diablo book that came with it.

Adjustable parameters:

Timing
Fuel Table
Idle
Speed limiter
Rev Limiter
RPM Shift points
MPH up and downshifts
Shift timing
Shift Pressure
Cags on/Off

So what were you saying about it not adjusting the transmission??? Looks like there are 4 different items in it to adjust these things. Bottom line it does everything you want it to do.

opps forgot all the stuff on the next page lol
cooling fan on/off
re cal for speedometer
Torque management on/off
injector adjustment
Catalytic overtemp protection
Multiple misfire adjustment
EGR disable
Air code disable
Rear 02 disable

Granted, all these options to adjust may not be on this model (have not got into the custom tune) but I can guarantee you that with the standard diablo tune, Diablo has adjusted the transmission. It's obvious. It's flat out shifts differently. Catches gears easier. It really does.

[GTPprix]

I'm not comparing (two completely different things) I'm just trying to understand how something with no TCM controls helps shifting thats it and only it. We've been trying to get Predators so we can bundle our tune on one for quite some time now but no one can give us a definate time frame on TCM controls thats all.

[Liquiddi]

Chris, that's cool. I know your product is a better performing product. I'm not sure how it has adjusted the transmission. I have a 2000 vette as well and spend a lot of time on corvette forum. I know those guys that use Diablo's adjust all the transmission stuff. I have no idea how. I would love the ability of having the vector tune on this Diablo. I will be looking for that in the future. That would be the best of all worlds.

[GTPprix]

Chris, that's cool. I know your product is a better performing product. I'm not sure how it has adjusted the transmission. I have a 2000 vette as well and spend a lot of time on corvette forum. I know those guys that use Diablo's adjust all the transmission stuff. I have no idea how. I would love the ability of having the vector tune on this Diablo. I will be looking for that in the future. That would be the best of all worlds.

Yup thats exactly what we'd like to do as well, best of both worlds :) I just cant get a definate answer from diablo I was hoping maybe they just didnt tell anyone but added TCM controls (that would rule!) On the 2000 Vette PCM the trans controls are in the PCM not a seperate module like the SS thats why I was askin! :D

[Liquiddi]

How can you tell if they have done that? Do you have to go into the custum tuning area on the thing?

One way we can find out how much better the Vector is than the Diablo is to race 2 trucks side by side. If anyone in the St. Louis area has a vector tune on your truck I would like to race them side by side. I really would like to see the differeance. (not trying to be arrogant)

[GTPprix]

How can you tell if they have done that? Do you have to go into the custum tuning area on the thing?

Yeah see if you can actually change the WOT shift points or something trans related :)

[cakiki]

One way we can find out how much better the Vector is than the Diablo is to race 2 trucks side by side. If anyone in the St. Louis area has a vector tune on your truck I would like to race them side by side. I really would like to see the differeance. (not trying to be arrogant)the true way would be to use the same truck with both and go off track times. not all tbss are equal.

[Liquiddi]

the true way would be to use the same truck with both and go off track times. not all tbss are equal.


That's a good point. No way of really finding out because even if you used the same truck and the temp changed or anything it could make a differance. Still would be fun to race a Vector tuned SS. :D

[Tommy]

Will that work for an I6 ? :cool:

[TIM B]

Where is the best place to order a Diablo Sport tuner?

[Liquiddi]

http://www.concoursdirect.com/di20ls2c6cop.html

[TrailblazerSS]

My TB went 13.98 before the tune and 13.51 after the tune with no other changes.

Best way to compare might be to run stock and then Diablo back to back. Then compare the % improvements.

[LSX Truck]

What exactly does "Holds the gears better" mean?

[Foop]

All I know is that Chris put the tune in my SS thursday and now I can't stay out of the drivers seat. Thanks Chris and thanks for explaining the octane tables to me. I do have one question though. Let's say I decided to changes gearing could I use a diablo sport or another hand held to adjust the speedo without disrupting the tune?

[ScarabEpic22]

Will that work for an I6 ? :cool:
No, neither of the tunes discussed in this thread are for the I6, just the LS2 V8.

For the I6, Wait4me has their tune out, and you could purchase either EFILive or HPTuners to tune it yourself.

[FastBlueSS]

Yup thats exactly what we'd like to do as well, best of both worlds :) I just cant get a definate answer from diablo I was hoping maybe they just didnt tell anyone but added TCM controls (that would rule!) On the 2000 Vette PCM the trans controls are in the PCM not a seperate module like the SS thats why I was askin! :D

Why would it be better to have the Vector tune in the Predator?
What's wrong with the Diablo Tune?:undecided

[Liquiddi]

That way you could go back to the regular stock tune any time you wanted to and then back to the vector. Ass far as holding the gears better it could all be in my head. Chris knows what he is talking about. Unless diablo has done something different with mine it's not going to change the shifting at all. I'm starting to think that the added HP has just tricked me into thinking the transmission has changed. Since there is more power the car seems to hold gears better because it gets there quicker. It's hard to explain but it does feel different. All I know is I'm 100% satisfied with the diablo even if the transmission has not changed. I'm just too worried about taking my truck in for service without being able to put it back to the stock tune. Plus, I can't always run 93 octane so it's nice to be able to go back to the stock tune.

[TIM B]

Thanks for the link hook up.:D

[GTPprix]

What's wrong with the Diablo Tune?:undecided

The simple fact it was tested on ONE truck over a weekend before release and made I believe over 14 horsepower LESS to the tires than we did after testing it for months on numerous vehicles; we've got it wrapped up by a LARGE margin.

If we could get our tune in a predator people could get the tried and tested tune with the ability to go back to stock ect.. It would be a nice selling point on our end and better for the end user.

[Liquiddi]

That would mean your tune is putting out 34-44 RWHP???

[ScarabEpic22]

That would mean your tune is putting out 34-44 RWHP???
Yep, it does.:yes: :yes:

Toss in a CAI and thats another 12hp/10tq at the wheels (dyno tested).:D

[John Skiba]

The simple fact it was tested on ONE truck over a weekend before release and made I believe over 14 horsepower LESS to the tires than we did after testing it for months on numerous vehicles; we've got it wrapped up by a LARGE margin.

If we could get our tune in a predator people could get the tried and tested tune with the ability to go back to stock ect.. It would be a nice selling point on our end and better for the end user.

Chris, you may want to e-mail paul@efilive.com . See below...

"Many workshops and mail order tuners have requested the ability to remotely program a customer’s PCM. EFILive is currently developing a product called Autocal that allows any tuner with a Workshop license to purchase one or more Autocal interface cables, into which can be stored a pre-canned tune. That Autocal unit may be sent to a customer and will save the PCM’s original tune, then reprogram the PCM with the pre-canned tune (the original tune can be restored at any time). This means customers no longer need to remove or mail their PCMs, instead the tuner mails the Autocal unit to the customer. The Autocal units are small, light, robust and easy to ship. Engine builders can deliver optimised performance tunes with their engine packages and mail order tuners can send updated tunes via email to their Autocal equipped customers.
Availability and pricing of Autocal units has not yet been confirmed."

[GTPprix]

Chris, you may want to e-mail paul@efilive.com . See below...

"Many workshops and mail order tuners have requested the ability to remotely program a customer’s PCM. EFILive is currently developing a product called Autocal that allows any tuner with a Workshop license to purchase one or more Autocal interface cables, into which can be stored a pre-canned tune. That Autocal unit may be sent to a customer and will save the PCM’s original tune, then reprogram the PCM with the pre-canned tune (the original tune can be restored at any time). This means customers no longer need to remove or mail their PCMs, instead the tuner mails the Autocal unit to the customer. The Autocal units are small, light, robust and easy to ship. Engine builders can deliver optimised performance tunes with their engine packages and mail order tuners can send updated tunes via email to their Autocal equipped customers.
Availability and pricing of Autocal units has not yet been confirmed."

Thanks for th eheads up John, I havent talked to Paul Blackmoore in ages :D EFI Live FTW if that works the way I hope it does :D

[Liquiddi]

P.S. I am getting better gas mileage with the tune. Right now about 1mpg better.

[fredg369]

Holds the gears better. It does shift better. I don't care what anyone says. Maybe it doesn't shift tighter or whatnot but it holds the gears better. I understand the Vector is a better system it's just not for me so please try to keep the flamming to a minimum. This thing for $320 to be able to easily plug it in and go is a dream. That's all.

I have to agree we the shift points.
That was like the first thing I noticed....besides throttle response...It does shift better.
The first gear drop is not there...It feels a little slushy but it also whips you back...like wooooooo:eek: ....Makes me come out of my seat sometimes...I'm not $hitten ya.:yes:

[vetruck]

I'm glad to hear Diablo's coming through. Now if SCT can get theirs out we can have another handheld to compare it to.

[Liquiddi]

I just messed around with my diablo tune. Looks like they have advanded the spark a bit. They did not mess with the power enrichment. I went ahead and gradually tried leaning out the thing. I feel comfortable at -4 lean on both RPM ranges. Truck pulls like a freight train and there is no knocking or detonation. I can see where Vectors tune would be a lot better at this point. I moved the rpm liniter up 200rpms but it doesn't matter since the transmission will not allow it to get to 7000 rpms. It shifts no matter what at 6500ish rpms. You would gain another 15-20hp just from having those extra RPMS at the top. Chris do you guys move where the truck shifts up to an actual 7000 rpms?? If so that is worth the vector tune over the Diablo. Granted if Diablo would come out with transmission stuff on this thing that would be awesome.

My Air to Fuel mixture is reading around 14.75 up to 15.5 on WOT. That still seems a little rich to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

[TBSS]

From what I understand, HP Tuners and EFI Live! are able to tune the TCM through the OBDII connector/CAN bus, so theoretically, the Diablo should be able to do the same thing. Now whether or not they do right now is up for debate.

[vetruck]

I just messed around with my diablo tune. Looks like they have advanded the spark a bit. They did not mess with the power enrichment. I went ahead and gradually tried leaning out the thing. I feel comfortable at -4 lean on both RPM ranges. Truck pulls like a freight train and there is no knocking or detonation. I can see where Vectors tune would be a lot better at this point. I moved the rpm liniter up 200rpms but it doesn't matter since the transmission will not allow it to get to 7000 rpms. It shifts no matter what at 6500ish rpms. You would gain another 15-20hp just from having those extra RPMS at the top. Chris do you guys move where the truck shifts up to an actual 7000 rpms?? If so that is worth the vector tune over the Diablo. Granted if Diablo would come out with transmission stuff on this thing that would be awesome.

My Air to Fuel mixture is reading around 14.75 up to 15.5 on WOT. That still seems a little rich to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

You need to undue the leaning you did. There does not need to be pinging and detonation to exceed safe temps and for an N/A vehicle you want to be around 13.0 with the AF. I may be wrong but the 13 for air to fuel ratio means 13 parts air to 1 part fuel. If your at 14.5-15.5 your way too lean. I wouldn't play too much with that thing, it comes as a safe tune but don't get too extreme.

Also, why do you think an extra 200 rpms will give you 20 more hp???? Most power and torque curves I've seen start to drop off several hundred rpms before redline and I've never seen max power or torque at redline.

[Liquiddi]

From reading Corvette forum with those guys tuning their LS2's they are leaning them out down to 12-13. Sounds like the lower you go the leaner the car gets. So mine at 14.75 is good. I did try it at the stock tune and it basically gives me the same readings so I don't think what I have done has done much at all. Just a tad leaner with more spark advance than stock.

[TIM B]

From reading Corvette forum with those guys tuning their LS2's they are leaning them out down to 12-13. Sounds like the lower you go the leaner the car gets. So mine at 14.75 is good. I did try it at the stock tune and it basically gives me the same readings so I don't think what I have done has done much at all. Just a tad leaner with more spark advance than stock.

The higher the air fuel number is the leaner it is. Yours is very lean. I've had several dozen dyno tunes done and that is what I've learned. I'm 100% sure about this.

[Liquiddi]

The higher the air fuel number is the leaner it is. Yours is very lean. I've had several dozen dyno tunes done and that is what I've learned. I'm 100% sure about this.


Thanks for the advice Tim. I went back to the stock tune and drove it. WOW what a slug with the stock tune. You don't appreciate a tune until you drive the truck around for a week and then go back to stock. Incredible differance. Anyways, I watched the stock A/F ratio at WOT with the stock tune and this is crazy but the truck was at around 14.75 at idle and cruising but it was around 18ish for WOT??? I took your advice and went back to the basic Diablo tune and that is around 14.75 at idle and crusing and 15.6ish at WOT. I'm guessing either this diablo tuner is set up the opposite from normal tuning devices or the A/F ratio thing on it just flat out doesn't work properly. I read on Corvette forum that they don't think the A/F ratio thing on the tuner works properly. I even tried richening up the fuel mixture to +2 for both parameters and the truck went to 15.96 at WOT. It has to be reading the thing rich going higher for the numbers. I understand that is normally not correct but it seems to be that way with my programmer. I'm just going to leave the tune at the stock Diablo program. Truck runs so much better than stock and that's good enough for me. Thanks for the advice.

[SUVette06]

The simple fact it was tested on ONE truck over a weekend before release and made I believe over 14 horsepower LESS to the tires than we did after testing it for months on numerous vehicles; we've got it wrapped up by a LARGE margin.

If we could get our tune in a predator people could get the tried and tested tune with the ability to go back to stock ect.. It would be a nice selling point on our end and better for the end user.

Man, if I could get the tune in a handheld that I could revert back to stock if needed.........I'd def be in.....is this a real possibility? Is it in the works?

[blautens]

This may sound like a dumb question, but if your custom tune is working well (and believe me, mine is - it's a Vector) - what is the desire to go back to stock?

I mean, I have no driveability issues, no gas issues, no SES lights...I can tow if I want to...

Done right (and I think mine is), just wondering why I'd ever go back to stock.

[Liquiddi]

because I can reflash it back to stock in 10 seconds if I'm going on a trip to the lake of the Ozarks. I can run 87 octane witht he stock tune for long trips. Witht he price of gas that's a big deal. I hate paying for 92 octane and having to put it in the car when you are just burning it off crusing at 70mph on the highway. That's my reason. And if you take it to the dealer. I don't want any warranty issues.

[AJSZR2326]

your wasting your time and money on the predator, i've had handheld programmers for my 02 vette, 03 hummer sure they made a little change but the 02 vette program comes directly from lingenfelter and has a custom program for a supercharger, the hypertech for the hummer changed a few shift points but nothing major, the tbss has different pcm & tcm its the tcm program you can feel. my 1st to 2nd shift is violent and neck snapping! and i get 2-3 mph better gas mileage.the vector tune & cai is the way to go.plus when you sell your truck what are you going to do with the programmer, its only good for 1 truck, its yours forever. mines a lease when im done i put in the original pcm & tcm back in and sell them to a worthy tbss member:)

[SUVette06]

This may sound like a dumb question, but if your custom tune is working well (and believe me, mine is - it's a Vector) - what is the desire to go back to stock?

I mean, I have no driveability issues, no gas issues, no SES lights...I can tow if I want to...

Done right (and I think mine is), just wondering why I'd ever go back to stock.


First off...I dont want to send my computers in to Vector...and I dont want to take it to the dealer to get a relearn done. Also, as stated before, if i take it to the dealer for warranty work, I can reflash it with the stock tune.

[Liquiddi]

Bottom line guys the Diablo does provide what they claim. It is a big improvement over stock. 20-30 RWHP is a big gain. No question in my mind it does provide those gains. To be able to plug and play is great. I would like to have the Vector tune on my Diablo. As said before best of both worlds.

[clutchNthrottle]

I had a predator on my '02 Silverado.

Likes:
Real time monitoring. I do data acquisition on test vehicles at work so being a grease nerd/geek monkey, I loved this feature and always had it plugged in when I was driving. I could see when the truck was pulling out timing with knock retard. I could see I was doing 125mph when the 100mph speedo was buried. I could watch my IAT ad TPS numbers and set the cruise control to exactly 9mph over the limit.

Bang for the buck. It was worth a 10th or 2 in the 1/4, a difference you can feel. Adjustability of settings, up or downloading, updates via email with serial port, read and clear codes and real-time monitoring.

Upload or downloading/updates. Programming back to stock for warranty. Get new tune in your email, suck it into the Predator then stick the update in the truck.

Adjustability. This was handy keeping the speedo accurate when I changed tire sizes. Shift points pressure and rev limit. Didn't play too much with fuel or ing tho, spent all my dyno time and earmarked bills on one-wheeled dynos when I was roadracing.

Code reading and clearing. Didn't ever need this on the truck but came in handy tracking down a #4 misfire in the wife’s Sunfire that was throwing a code.

Dislikes.
Could only adjust fuel and ignition at WOT.

Did it help contribute to smoking the 2-4 band in the 4L60E TWICE within 20k miles?

Married to VIN. Now that I traded my truck in, I'm stuck with this useless paper weight now. It's now a glorified $400 code scanner for the wife’s Sunfire and won't even talk to the TBSS. Though I haven't plugged it into the ODB-II port on my bike yet, I'm sure it's a different code or language or whatever, I have a little program from an Aussie dude for that tho anyway... ;)

I would be happy if I could do a turn-in and get like 1/2 off a predator for the TBSS. I would be happy if I could sell it to another truck guy, let them enjoy it and make a buck-fiddy back to recycle into mods for the TBSS. Hell, I'd be content if it could at least read codes and do real time monitoring on the TBSS!!!:mad:

In Summary. These are the reasons I'm entrenched with the Vector camp, in addition to having made a DA corrected pass at 13.2 (13.7 actual) running the CAI tune with a STOCK intake. However, if you could combine the strengths of both systems, they would cancel out the negatives of each other and have one superior kick ass product that would even be worth a 50% mark up. That would be the most kick ass cross-over since the Vehicle Voltron teamed up with the Lion Voltron and wrecked major bad guys (srt-8's in this case)!:yes:

Questions, Predator Owners:
Can the Predator for the TBSS make Fuel and Timing adjustments aside from WOT on the TBSS?
Can it do real time monitoring, check and clear codes?
Can it connect to your pc and receive updates via email? :undecided

Questions, Chris
Would it be impossible to operate the loader as a stand alone program? Could it be packaged and run out of a simple 2 or 3 button box with a single 2 or 3 color LED for status and have an ODB-II connector on one end and a USB on the other. That way instead of sending the LRU's back to you for each update all we'd have to do email you a request, download the tune in your reply into the tuneloader box, plug our loader into the truck and leave you the phuq alone so you can work on more pressing issues, like supa chargas...:p

[Liquiddi]

yes you can make adjustments without going WOT. It will do the real time monitoring (not sure how accurate it is though)and clear codes. You can upload new tunes from the internet.

[clutchNthrottle]

One way we can find out how much better the Vector is than the Diablo is to race 2 trucks side by side.

I'm curious too, nothing like back to back, same day, same vehicle, same operator, same track/dyno runs for some good independent data comparison. Too bad you can't load a Predator program on a TBSS that's running the Vector tune, due to the lockout feature... and then the VIN marry making the Predator useless after that...:confused:

Whadaya say TonyGXP? Cecil or Atco? We're both 2wd, modded about the same, weigh about the same, both have a vague idea how to drive and launch these things ('cept when my dumbazz leaves the traction control on... :no: ), you have Predator (or is it a Wester's?), I've got Vector. In the name of science and for the sake of the Trailvoiy/TBSS community and bench racers everywhere...:D

If you come to Cecil on a Wed night, I'll pay your gate, buy ya a hot dog and even help ya take your mudflaps off. :yes: mmmmmm hot dooooooog.... :drool:

[blautens]

First off...I dont want to send my computers in to Vector...and I dont want to take it to the dealer to get a relearn done. Also, as stated before, if i take it to the dealer for warranty work, I can reflash it with the stock tune.

Okay. I didn't want to send mine in, either...since it's almost a daily driver. So I did the core swap. But...I've been to the dealer 3 times now, once for the CVL. It was painless.

I can tell you that if I brought my truck to the dealer on fire, and didn't mention the fire (actually more specifically that I would like the fire to be put out), they'd change the oil (or whatever I asked) and return it on fire. They couldn't care less about the tune...

I believe (could be wrong here) Chris has stated the dealer can't tell the Vector tune has been done, can't overwrite it, and if for some reason any of that happened Vector would reflash it. I would venture to say the average Chevy tech is interested in only addressing as little as possible, not in hunting around to see if the owner has reflashed the ECM or TCM. Just closing the ticket...

But to each their own...me? If I had a 11 second blown car tuned to within an inch of it's life, I might want some adjustablility (pump gas versus race gas, different temp conditions, etc...), but I get in the truck and drive. Sometimes the wife does (okay, it only happened once, but in theory, she might again someday). I'm not changing gas, not changing settings on a handheld, not changing anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm a car guy, but I'm not up for all that on a family truckster. Easy to use...turn key, go fast, same type of fast every time.

[FastBlueSS]

The simple fact it was tested on ONE truck over a weekend before release and made I believe over 14 horsepower LESS to the tires than we did after testing it for months on numerous vehicles; we've got it wrapped up by a LARGE margin.

If we could get our tune in a predator people could get the tried and tested tune with the ability to go back to stock ect.. It would be a nice selling point on our end and better for the end user.

You keep saying they only tested one vehicle, so I decided to write to them and ask...

Here is the response!

This is a reply to your question from 2006-06-10 19:06
CATEGORY: Predator
QUESTION: [Your competition keeps saying that you only tested one vehicle over a weekend for the Trailblazer SS tune. Is that true?
u7191 Predator rev. 97]
------------------------------------------------------------
ANSWER:
Dear Eric Davis,

That is not true. Multiple vehicles were obtained for testing.

Thank you for your interest in DiabloSport!
Stay tuned,
Calvin, a proud member of the DiabloSport Support Team

Don't go around spreading rumors about your competition, Chris:no:

[vetruck]

First of all, I'm pro-predator since I've had good results with mine in the past. However, to take what Diablo Sport says about their testing procedures as fact is a little premature. Would they really say, "Yes, we got one vehicle to play with over one weekend to develop a tune that we can sell for $320-$400 for you to upload into your new $35,000 vehicle and we guessed at the adjustments required for 2wd and AWD and had to make the tune so safe to account for differences that we could not discover by testing one vehicle that the performance is cut down?" They would not say that even if it was true because that would seriously hurt sales and Calvin would probably be fired.

But the great thing about the predator is that you can adjust it when you get headers, intake, bigger injectors etc because you will need to adjust the tune. You can take your truck to any Diablo custom tuner or just e-mail them and they can write you a custom tune. Now if your satisfied with a CAI and very well done custom tune from Vector and don't plan on making additional upgrades that will affect the A/F and power curves then Vector is the way to go. If you really want to do it right though you need to get your upgrades and take the truck to a reputable tuner who will put the truck on a dyno and test and retest to get the best tune for your truck and driving needs.

[GTPprix]

I'm not spreading rumors, the ONE truck they used posts here! He posted the entire R&D process here plain as day! They had his truck for a weekend and the Monday after viola there was a Predator tune and one week after that it was added to the Predator units LOL I mean seriously how much LESS real world testing can you do, one truck in florida; that really runs the gamut of conditions/fuels right?

BTW Since you think I'm making this up: http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=5646&highlight=predator

You think the monkey that answers emails like a form letter on thier website has a clue what R&D does?

Again for the record I'm NOT saying Predator sucks!! I'd LOVE to have thier units to load calibrations that go through a rigourous R&D process from!! But the fact is they obviously rushed the units out the door with half functionality and little real world testing to simply get them out.. or at least its obvious to anyone whos used one of thier older units with full support..

[FastBlueSS]

Ahhh, if we could all hire monkeys...what a world it would be.
I don't understand why you seem to end up defending yourself whenever someone posts about the Predator. Let's just try an experiment. just for once let the people have a discussion about the Predator (the title of the post is "just got my Diablo Programmer") without Chris from Vector feeling compelled to chime in. How 'bout it Chris, can you do it?:undecided

[GTPprix]

How 'bout it Chris, can you do it?:undecided

I'd say yes, but you might want to email Diablo to make sure first.. :D

[vetruck]

I think Chris has a lot of valuable info concerning these trucks and their computers. He is an owner and member of this forum so he has every right to chime in. I don't think he would lie to discredit the Predator because when it is found out that he did, and it would be, his credability would be crap and his sales would probably be hurt too. But you can't expect him not to be a little biased and not promote his own version for it's strong points since thats what he needs to do. I want all the info before I spend my money not just people saying how great a product is who have not used anything else. I want everyone's opinion, especially competitors. JMO :)

[Liquiddi]

Chris, if I had the vector tune put in mine could I have the Diablo reflash everything back to stock if needed?

[ScarabEpic22]

Chris, if I had the vector tune put in mine could I have the Diablo reflash everything back to stock if needed?
Ohhh, thats a good question, but Im thinking no because VMS locks their tunes into the PCM so the stealership cant override their custom programming.


And, I think what Chris really wants to do is wait until Diablo get TCM support and then get some Predators and upload the VMS tune to them and then sell the Predators with the VMS tune. That way you could go back to stock with a few button presses and if the dealer does happen to overwrite the tune, its really simple to reflash it back.

[vetruck]

Ohhh, thats a good question, but Im thinking no because VMS locks their tunes into the PCM so the stealership cant override their custom programming.


And, I think what Chris really wants to do is wait until Diablo get TCM support and then get some Predators and upload the VMS tune to them and then sell the Predators with the VMS tune. That way you could go back to stock with a few button presses and if the dealer does happen to overwrite the tune, its really simple to reflash it back.

I think the tunes are locked so no other private tuners can access them and steal them to protect the investment made in R&D. It will be sweet if VMS can use a handheld to sell their tunes. They will still be locked but there will be no downtime and you can put it back to stock easily.

[clutchNthrottle]

Let's just try an experiment. just for once let the people have a discussion about the Predator (the title of the post is "just got my Diablo Programmer") without Chris from Vector feeling compelled to chime in. How 'bout it Chris, can you do it?:undecided

At least he commented on your post, I addressed a direct question to him in my post and he didn't even seem to notice... my fragile sensetive feelings are hurt...:sadcry: :sadcry: :sadcry: now where did I put my shrink's number... *sniff*:cry:

[FastBlueSS]

I'd say yes, but you might want to email Diablo to make sure first.. :D

Is that supposed to be funny?

Your not much of a businessman are ya Chris?:no:

[2002SLT]

Is that supposed to be funny?

Your not much of a businessman are ya Chris?:no:

Dude, what's your problem? :chillpill:

[Juniorss]

ok back on topic, can you program the TCM through the OBDII port or do you have to take it out and have it programmed? I would suppose you could program it through the OBDII port so why cant Diablo put it on there handheld programmer? Btw im going with the Vector tune either way unless Chris can use the predator to put his tune one.

[GTPprix]

Is that supposed to be funny?


No; it was definately funny, why?

At least he commented on your post, I addressed a direct question to him in my post and he didn't even seem to notice... my fragile sensetive feelings are hurt...:sadcry: :sadcry: :sadcry: now where did I put my shrink's number... *sniff*:cry:

Send me an email and I'll send you my shrink;s # too ;) Mr. Daniels is a good listener!

Chris, if I had the vector tune put in mine could I have the Diablo reflash everything back to stock if needed?

No but I might have a solution for you, PM me when you get a minute ;)

[2002SLT]

No but I might have a solution for you, PM me when you get a minute ;)

I think many of us would like to know the solution. Is it a secret? :undecided

[GTPprix]

I think many of us would like to know the solution. Is it a secret? :undecided

No nothing crazy, it's nothing thats going to fix the issue for you guys just a thought lol

[TonyGXP]

I'm curious too, nothing like back to back, same day, same vehicle, same operator, same track/dyno runs for some good independent data comparison. Too bad you can't load a Predator program on a TBSS that's running the Vector tune, due to the lockout feature... and then the VIN marry making the Predator useless after that...:confused:

Whadaya say TonyGXP? Cecil or Atco? We're both 2wd, modded about the same, weigh about the same, both have a vague idea how to drive and launch these things ('cept when my dumbazz leaves the traction control on... :no: ), you have Predator (or is it a Wester's?), I've got Vector. In the name of science and for the sake of the Trailvoiy/TBSS community and bench racers everywhere...:D

If you come to Cecil on a Wed night, I'll pay your gate, buy ya a hot dog and even help ya take your mudflaps off. :yes: mmmmmm hot dooooooog.... :drool:

Atco, whenever you like...it's Wester's Tuned & Atco has a Bar for after the Races!! can't beat that..PM me and we can set a Date..how manymiles on yours? mine just hit 3k today..

[clutchNthrottle]

Atco, whenever you like...it's Wester's Tuned & Atco has a Bar for after the Races!! can't beat that..PM me and we can set a Date..how manymiles on yours? mine just hit 3k today..

If it's Atco, then you're buying the beers and I like Imports and Micros, none of that cheap schwag...:D LOL I rolled over 2100 today. I'll PM ya, gotta figure out where the track is and how long to get there 1st.

[TonyGXP]

roughly 2.5hrs..not too bad, for the rematch I'll drive to your track, how's that?

[ScarabEpic22]

I think the tunes are locked so no other private tuners can access them and steal them to protect the investment made in R&D. It will be sweet if VMS can use a handheld to sell their tunes. They will still be locked but there will be no downtime and you can put it back to stock easily.
Thats what I said man, the tunes are locked. Read my original reply, but you are correct on why they are locked, so others cant steal their parameters.


And, the TCM presumably can be tuned through the OBDII port, Diablo just hasnt figured out the parameters yet is my guess.

[vetruck]

Thats what I said man, the tunes are locked. Read my original reply, but you are correct on why they are locked, so others cant steal their parameters.


And, the TCM presumably can be tuned through the OBDII port, Diablo just hasnt figured out the parameters yet is my guess.

I know what you said, and I was correcting it so others aren't confused about why it's locked. I doubt Vector is worried that the dealer might try to reflash the computer. Why would they do that? If you have a Vector tune, and a problem with it, you would go through Vector not the dealer right?

[jimmyjam]

can we attempt to keep this thread on topic? thanks :D

[TonyGXP]

can we attempt to keep this thread on topic? thanks :D

I think that will be a losing battle...when has a thread ever stayed on topic..give it time, like everything in life it will come back around!!:D

Mr. Moderator!!!!;)

[ScarabEpic22]

can we attempt to keep this thread on topic? thanks :D
Sorry:hail: :hail: :grouphug:

[clutchNthrottle]

roughly 2.5hrs..not too bad, for the rematch I'll drive to your track, how's that?

Actually it's only like 95 miles so should only be like a 1.5 - 2 hour hike. What's the cost to race and what days are the least crowded, Thur-Sun? Any special rules... are shorts forbiden like at Cecil and do I need to bring one of my helmets?

So did you notice a significant difference between reduced TQM and Zero TQM in the tunes you've tried?

[SSmokinTB]

...And, I think what Chris really wants to do is wait until Diablo get TCM support and then get some Predators and upload the VMS tune to them and then sell the Predators with the VMS tune. That way you could go back to stock with a few button presses and if the dealer does happen to overwrite the tune, its really simple to reflash it back.That's what I'm waiting for, since I have a lease. Still waiting....patiently...

[BowtieNut]

:iagree:
I'll be on it in a heartbeat if they get the VMS tune on a handheld!!! That way I can have the best tune, and still go back to stock when I need to tow.

[ScarabEpic22]

:iagree:
I'll be on it in a heartbeat if they get the VMS tune on a handheld!!! That way I can have the best tune, and still go back to stock when I need to tow.
Yea, thats an issue I have talked to Chris about, and I would probably have to revert to a stock tune once I hooked my boat up or get a less powerful tune that allows towing.

[2002SLT]

:iagree:
I'll be on it in a heartbeat if they get the VMS tune on a handheld!!! That way I can have the best tune, and still go back to stock when I need to tow.

:offtopic: I know this is going off topic again, but this is the first I've heard of you not being able to tow with Vector's tune. Is this true? I thought you only had issues with a new converter.

[ScarabEpic22]

:offtopic: I know this is going off topic again, but this is the first I've heard of you not being able to tow with Vector's tune. Is this true? I thought you only had issues with a new converter.
I talked to Chris a while back about if/when I get an SS and have VMS make a tune for me that will still allow me to tow. He said they would have to work on it as the regular tune is designed for all out performance.:D :cool:

[GTPprix]

You can still tow, so far we've had people do up to 4000lbs without issue.

[ScarabEpic22]

You can still tow, so far we've had people do up to 4000lbs without issue.
Cool, thats great to know!!!

My boat (the heavier one that I actually tow between Seattle and ID) is about 4K mildly loaded, boat is 2600-2800lbs dry, 1000lbs trailer, + fuel and extra stuff in boat.

Maybe that means I dont have to mess with getting a lower tune, I can still have all the performance!!!! WoohoooO!:woohoo:

(Can you tell I just had a Rockstar??:rotfl:

[Trailblazer1]

I really do hope that vms is able to put their tune into a handheld, any handheld. The only thing stopping me right now is the sending my two modules to them and waiting to get them back. I thought about the new ecm and tcm but am nervous about the relearn at the dealer. Well Chris I am sure that when Kirk gets it done you will let us know.:)

[SUVette06]

Im not nervous about getting the relearn done, I just want the ability to go back to stock if needed....put me on that list..Im Definitely IN!

[vetruck]

+1 for a Vectorized Predator!!

[vetruck]

http://www.concoursdirect.com/di20ls2c6cop.html

Thanks for the link. I just ordered mine from these guys, best deal I've found since I already have the interface kit and didn't want to pay extra for one. I went with Diablo for tunability since I have a Chip Revolution Dealer less than 10 miles from my house.

[vetruck]

Uploaded the Diablo tune yesterday and I'm pretty impressed. Seat of the pants feel is much more noticeable than on my 05 Mustang. I will adjust some settings and hopefully make it to the track today to compare some times.

[jbull74]

Just wondering if anyone with the diablo has added a cai and had a cmr do a custom tune?

[vetruck]

Just wondering if anyone with the diablo has added a cai and had a cmr do a custom tune?

Not yet but I will be. I want to wait for more options with the CAI's before I buy :)