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The Grim Reaper for GMT 360/370 Trucks

7K views 20 replies 15 participants last post by  billdaman 
#1 ·
News flash - Director of Global Vehicle engineering Jim "Alfalfa" Queen has finally achieved the promise he made to a group of Harvard Recruits in 2003 = That "I will tear this company apart" Translation "Get rid of the trucks except GMT 900"

Here he is shaking hands with Govenor Granholm after securing more Michigan Taxpayer money for HIS hand picked Cadillac division boys for another of their low volume halo waste of time vehicles.

He had to shut down the GMT 360 program and the Moraine assembly plant though, even with approximately 180 Trailblazers/Envoys being sold every day. Yes this is the guy who did this so the Trailblazers/Envoys wouldn't siphon off sales from HIS Acadia, Enclave, Outlook POC babies.

Some of us should ask the question to "Alfalfa", just how many of those Cadillacs in the picture will be sold in a year??? Will it be worth the TAXPAYER money being spent to help setup the new line ??? For what?? 20 vehicles a day??? The 360/370's were still selling 180 units EVERY DAY, without Taxpayer money ...and Alfalfa had to kill the program!!!

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#2 ·
Welcome to the world of politics. But seriously, you're beginning to sound a bit obsessed with Mr. Queen, or Alfalfa, as you choose to call him. I understand that your position was compromised and undoubtably you feel Mr. Queen was somewhat responsible, if not directly. However, Mr. Queen has apparently had a vision of things to come, and has used his formidible talent of persuasion to accomplish such a task. It is done. The vehicles that we all know and love are no more. It is time to move on, preferably forward. Find a way to transfer all your bitterness and anger into a positive arena and see what can be accomplished.
 
#3 ·
Actually move forward to what? GM no longer designs manufactures a mid size BOF SUV. All the evidence that I can see in the media points to this not changing. This is a forum about the 360/370 right? So should a taxpayer just assume that its OK for a company that is now existing completely on taxpayer money to eliminate a vehicle that was selling 180 vehicles a day in the worst market in years? Move on to what? A Cadillac that will sell 20 units a day at best???

This is not my "personal obsession", its just facts. I think what you probabily are saying is this...Its silly to challenge the status quo...just be happy and buy the Acadia or Enclave or Outlook that "roughly " replace the 360/370. This is a forum about BOF rear wheel drive trucks right?

No as a taxpayer I think its plain stupid to kill a vehicle that was fully designed with all plant and equipment costs fully amoritized that was selling 180 vehicles a day to spend MY money on a pie in the sky concept that will sell 20 units per day at best.

The only move on I can see at this point is rally GM's customer base to force the company to utilize its flexible manufacturing capability to produce a next generation BOF midsize SUV at its Shrieveport Assembly plant. This will never happen with "Alfalfa" at the helm.

Well, I know that there are plenty that agree with me particularily in the areas of taxpayer waste. GM will come back to the federal government in March 2009 to get another 16 BILLION in handouts...to move on to what? 20 unit per day Cadillacs???

Doesnt sound like the marketplace talking to me!:)
 
#4 ·
I love my tb, which is why I bought a second one in 2007. If they were selling 180 units a day why would GM close a plant? I don't want a fwd piece of s--- ! Who do I call and or write at GM to correct this problem? Maybe if we made enough noise the top brass will listen and start prouduction again. Just keep making the same tb that we all love for 2 or 3 more years. Jay P.S. You can d--- well bet that Toyota would listen!
 
#5 ·
Possible end of american cars

The Tb/Envoy were selling that many a day and haven't been changed in years just imagine how much they would sell if they changed the body style a little. After the life of my current Tb i will be looking into a new FJ Cruiser. It hasnt been out for too many years and you can not drive anywhere without seeing one when are they going to realize most Americans want the mid size SUV. Then they wonder why Japanese trucks sell a lot more than American. It is a very sad day when we cant even get trucks and Suvs right.
 
#7 ·
The Tb/Envoy were selling that many a day and haven't been changed in years just imagine how much they would sell if they changed the body style a little. After the life of my current Tb i will be looking into a new FJ Cruiser. It hasnt been out for too many years and you can not drive anywhere without seeing one when are they going to realize most Americans want the mid size SUV. Then they wonder why Japanese trucks sell a lot more than American. It is a very sad day when we cant even get trucks and Suvs right.
You raise a very good point Mike about the FJ Cruiser. This vehicle sold about 1800 vehicles per month in 2008. This was less just a little over two weeks worth of the 360/370 monthly sales for the last months they were produced.

So why does Toyota still produce and sell the FJ Cruiser in the US with such low sales? Becaue they make MONEY on them. But Jim Alfalfa Queen could not have the 360/370 cutting into the monthly sales of the POC Outlook, Enclave, Acadia "crossovers" . God forbid that they would have to cut a shift at Lansing Delta township assembly plant that produce Alfalfas POC vehicles. Better to close Moraine

WE the customers are left with out a GM midsize BOF RWD SUV to purchase. Toyota still will produce the FJ at 1/2 the monthly sales of our beloved vehicles. BTW, to make money Toyota outsources the production of this vehicle to Hino Motors in Japan. Works very nice. GM knows how to do this. They kit build vehicles all over the world. Why didnt GM choose to continue to sell 180 Trailblazers a day. Ask your Senators...They are in charge of GM now
The reason that Yoyota is happy to sell only 1800 FJ Cruisers a month is that Toyota has a competant management team.
 
#9 ·
The Tb/Envoy were selling that many a day and haven't been changed in years just imagine how much they would sell if they changed the body style a little. After the life of my current Tb i will be looking into a new FJ Cruiser. It hasnt been out for too many years and you can not drive anywhere without seeing one when are they going to realize most Americans want the mid size SUV. Then they wonder why Japanese trucks sell a lot more than American. It is a very sad day when we cant even get trucks and Suvs right.
You raise a very good point Mike about the FJ Cruiser. This vehicle sold about 1800 vehicles per month in 2008. This was less just a little over two weeks worth of the 360/370 monthly sales for the last months they were produced.

So why does Toyota still produce and sell the FJ Cruiser in the US with such low sales? Becaue they make MONEY on them. But Jim Alfalfa Queen could not have the 360/370 cutting into the monthly sales of the POC Outlook, Enclave, Acadia "crossovers" . God forbid that they would have to cut a shift at Lansing Delta township assembly plant that produce Alfalfas POC vehicles. Better to close Moraine

WE the customers are left with out a GM midsize BOF RWD SUV to purchase. Toyota still will produce the FJ at 1/2 the monthly sales of our beloved vehicles. BTW, to make money Toyota outsources the production of this vehicle to Hino Motors in Japan. Works very nice. GM knows how to do this. They kit build vehicles all over the world. Why didnt GM choose to continue to sell 180 Trailblazers a day. Ask your Senators...They are in charge of GM now
The reason that Yoyota is happy to sell only 1800 FJ Cruisers a month is that Toyota has a competant management team.
 
#10 ·
Billdaman I completely agree. It seems plain stupid to shut down such a successful line of midsize SUVs so that a FWD line can come in. I'm turning 18 when my Trailblazer turns a year old and I love it. Already turned 14000 and I cant help but take it everywhere, gets me skiing in any weather and hauls a quad or snowmobile no problem. I am sad to see them go and be replaced by little 3.6L FWD "SUVs".

...Looks like my only GM substitute down the road might be a tahoe...
 
#12 ·
I fear that, however many 360's they sold a day, they were losing money on many of those sales. I was offered almost $6500 in MTC rebates on my '08 TB. I believe there was also a dealer incentive and on top of that, the dealer was very willing to negotiate on price. That tells me GM was just trying to sell what they were already committed to produce, at a loss if necessary, until they could close the plant.

My unscientific observations, of course--YMMV. I love my TB and I have always driven BOF, RWD trucks. The public just seems to be willing to pay more for fuel-efficient, unibody FWD crossovers.
 
#13 ·
The problem is that there is nothing efficient about having to rent a truck to do the job when you could have just bought a TB.
Luckily for me I can maintain a Chevy almost indefinately.

On second thought this may just be a well conceived plan to get away from overpriced and underquality union labor so they can open a new plant building the next 360 in 5-6 years better and at a lower cost. (still seems highly unlikely)
 
#15 ·
Think about what you are saying and what has got the Big three in the mess they are in. Should they continue to produce vehicles that have seen its market share drop out of site as our vehicles have, which is what they have done for years and got them in this mess. Or, should the Big 3 think about what combination of vehicles will make money tomorrow and make them competitive again? Don't get me wrong I like my TB, but it is getting out dated. I drove a 2009 last week and there wasn't enough different about it to make me want to buy a new one. Going forward GM is betting that you will either buy a Tahoe for its size and pulling capacity, (which is what I'm looking at), or buy a cross over, (which is what my wife is looking at), for its practicality. The only way the Big 3 will survive is if they gamble on ideas different than the past. This is my thoughts and yours may be different
Tom
 
#16 ·
The only way the Big 3 will survive is if they gamble on ideas different than the past. This is my thoughts and yours may be different
Tom
Well I and a few dozen other engineers pasionately pursued designing the 305 Envoy XUV. It was a big gamble, no one wanted it , GM and the suppliers lost out . Sometimes you win...sometime you lose
 
#18 ·
Long love BOF SUVS and Trucks

WTF those unibody hunks of junk will never replace the BOF SUVS and Trucks.
I 8 FWD vehicles with a passion. Jeeps are junk 2 because their unibody. My next vehicle will be a Suburban or better yet the Hummer H1. Who cares about gas prices.
 
#19 ·
If gm made some more changes to tv's over the years....not just dropping the olds and replacing it with the ranier, then the 9-7, not just making the tb have a normal bumper (w/o the step), not just have the tb have a shorter "crosshair' grill...and not just slowly increasing the power..I mean, updating the interior a wee bit, doing a little bit more to the body (if it was even possible...something to keep buyers more interested) and give it better fuel milage (i personally don't care if my rig gets 20mpg or less, but I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the target public) by putting in a transmission with more speeds than just 4 (doesn't the poc's have a 6speed tanny?..) and other things I'm sure that they could've easily done

but I do like the interior of the enclave......but they could've done that to the ranier and probably spent less money on a new model...but that would be one of the update I was talking about...billdaman is right..get that @@#hole out of gm!
I wouldn't be suprised if they did another one of these poc's for saab and they'd probably call it the 9-7f as in fwd or f'd for doing anything usefull

I guess I'm sore not only that they eliminated an awsome and very capable platform..but they eliminated a damn good division back 5 years ago..(up until recently I've never experienced an oldsmobile, but now that i have, I wish they were still around)
whew....thats my ranting....
 
#21 ·
You are dead on regarding the transmission choices and interior updates leading these vehicles into obsolesence. Cancelling the 2007 midcycle enhancement of these vehicles was killed by none other than Jim alfalfa Queen. Again this proven sales winner was sacrificed for the Triplets, which BTW dont get any better gas mileage than my Envoy.

Please see my post on the conversion of GM's former truck engineering center (where all the 360/370 work was conducted) in into a movie studio.They are bragging about the 50 million that will be spent to refurnish the engineering center into a studio. We would decide on spending 50 million on tooling in a single meeting for the 360/370 program.

A good friend of mine who ran the manufacturing program at Moraine used to brag to me that the plant based on its net $ output was a fortune 500 company on its own...on its own! Killing these vehicles was a huge mistake. Most of us know this, except for the moron leadership at GM that has run the company into the sewer.
 
#20 ·
Ironically, both Chevrolet and GMC had their GMT360/370 offerings showing at the Philadelphia Auto Show yesterday! Even though production ended over a month ago, they're still displaying them and touting them at the International Auto Show, right with an SS in the middle of their area.

If you only want two rows of seats, looks like the answer will be 2010 Equinox or whatever the final GMC version will be. Nice looking vehicle, that appears to be on the same chassis as the new Vue. - I've driven my buddy's, ok his wife's Vue and they're very nice, just not sure they'd hold up to pounding over broken pavement and such as well as my Envoy.
 
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