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Dumb Dealer lost my key and remote!

9K views 31 replies 19 participants last post by  Skinpuppi 
#1 ·
A question regarding key and remote replacement. My Dumb Dealer:bonk: has lost one of my keys and remote number 2. They are replacing it and so far has taken over 9 weeks to get:duh:. Now I'm starting to get mad:hissy:. They said they will program the new remote. My concern is that the missing remote and key would still work. I really hate knowing there is another key and remote out there for my Envoy. Is it possible to program my two remotes so they are different to the missing one. Do the keys have some kind of chip or is it just a regular key? Any suggestions?
 
#2 ·
once you reprogram the remote the old one wont work and both remotes you have need to be programed at the same time as for the key its just a regular key no programing needed.

i dont understand why the dealer is taking so long to do this. i work at an auto auction and could get a key in less than 30 seconds.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for info on remotes! I don't understand why it takes so long for such a simple common thing like a key and remote to be ordered either. Makes me think they are just not concerned and I just keep getting madder as time goes on. I even coppied the General Manager on last e mail. He has been aware since they were lost. And they want me to continue to get my Envoy serviced there....thats pretty funny:dielaugh:! I should now demand they change the lock cylinders.
 
#3 ·
There is a security Relearn process to protect you in this situation. They will have to relearn your 2 Remote FOBS and your Keys. Since they have chip in the keys. The delaership should do this free of charge cause they screwed up. I would also make them sign a paper saying they are liable if your Truck is ever stolen with the keys they lost. ( But I doubt they will do that.. But I would let your insurance Know they screwed up.. That way your insurance can go after them for the Money.)
 
#5 ·
Thanks for info. How can I tell if key has chip? pevious post said no chip in key. I will also draft a paper for the GM to sign just to prove how mad I am over their mistake and inability to correct in a reasonable amount of time. Then its off to a new dealer for me.
 
#7 ·
It's actually a misconception made by people to easily describe why you need a specific key.

Other keys like fords actually have chips in them, our keys merely complete a circuit. The passlock or passlock 2 system doesn't utilize the chip in key situation, The chip is actually in the igntion.

this is of course with the exception of the little (+) on a kay near the plastic, if you dont have that, you are fine, if you do, iirc those are vehicle specific.
 
#8 ·
Okay, I went out to double check something. The Envoy will recognize the driver and adjust accordingly when you get in, but only based on which FOB you use to unlock the door. I thought it was based also on which key you used, but I tried both after I got in and it didn't adjust. Mine don't have the plus sign.

So lets say I wanted to get another spare key, would I have to take all my keys in to be "relearned" or would a key just be made and that's the end of it?

EDIT:

Okay, so I just checked my dad's 07 Sierra and they do have the plus near the plastic. Do newer GM vehicles have these, like the newer Envoys?
 
#9 ·
Okay, I went out to double check something. The Envoy will recognize the driver and adjust accordingly when you get in, but only based on which FOB you use to unlock the door. I thought it was based also on which key you used, but I tried both after I got in and it didn't adjust.

So lets say I wanted to get another spare key, would I have to take all my keys in to be "relearned" or would a key just be made and that's the end of it?
key would just be made, no relearn is needed for it.
 
#19 ·
I actually have seen one Envoy that come in my shop with the +, now I dont know if that was the dealer selling them a higher priced key for programming to make more money or what, but there was one none the less, lol.



nope, chips are in the ignition on our vehicles
 
#20 ·
Do you have a resolution to this issue? Is the fact that the dealer lost your key and remote documented in their computer and on your paperwork? Bring us up to date...

Thanks!

-- Dan Meyer :coffee
 
#22 ·
The 360's don't and probably wont ever have the chips in the keys. Only new models do.


Sounds like some kind of scam with the dealer, I would try going to another dealer and getting it reprogrammed with new keys/remote.

Wouldnt suprise me, I know they have gotten away with it on one occasion (like I said, saw an envoy with one in the shop)

But then again what can you really expect form a dealer, trust and honesty?:laugh::dielaugh::laugh:
 
#23 ·
I lost my key and fob a couple of weeks ago. I checked around and the fob is very expensive. i had a key made at the hardware store and went to a junk yard and they gave me a fob.The directions to program the fob are on this web sight just do a search.takes 2 min.
 
#25 ·
The dealers I assume are just stupid or trying to make money. Go get a copy made at a hardware shop.

True story:

I had just gotten my license and before I had my own car I had a spare key to my moms to use when I needed to. I took my mom's 06 Envoy XL up to the dealer because we had a free oil change coupon. I pulled into the service area, got out and gave the key to the manager. He look at me and said, no, I need the real key to the vehicle (he said that like the smart ass he was). I laughed at him and said, I just pulled it out of the ignition and I've been using this key for a year. He tried to tell me that because it didn't have a chip that I must have done something to the ignition to make it work. After he started it he told me that one day the car won't start and it will be because of the copied key. After all that he gave me a problem when I tried to use the free oil change coupon saying it wasn't valid for some reason. What an *******

That was my first experience with a dealer and that's the impression I have set in my mind about them.
 
#27 ·
Okay, went to dealer to get programming done. After 1 hour :crazy: it was finshed and I headed home. Looking at the new remote I notice no number 2 on it. I parked the truck and try both remotes and realize the memory seats, mirrors and pedals are not responding to the remotes. So back I go again and try to explain whats going on. The guy tells me to go home and read manual and do it myself. I told him thats why it's at the dealership :duh: !!! He takes the truck and says he'll see what he can do. Meanwhile I go to General Manager and tell him his service advisor told me to go home and do it myself. Apparently they did programming wrong and have to erase everything and start over including DIC settings. After another hour all seems good now but what a bunch of BS I have to go through on a Saturday afternoon. The only thing I can't figure out is that the DIC setting "seat recall on key in" does not work. When in that mode there is a beep when key goes in but no Memory stuff changes. Oh well. What did I get for my troubles??? 3 months of XM added to my account.

ps. the tag on the new FOB said "Made in Phillipines" maybe this is why it took so long to come in. I don't think so but who knows.
 
#31 ·
Just to help folks who stumble across this old thread, let me just review the VATS (vehicle anti-theft system) or PassLock used on GM vehicles.

The first and second generation of PassLock used what is called the PassKey I (also called PK1) and PassKey II (PK2.) Both these systems used simple resistors buried in the key itself. These are the most common types of systems found on older GMs prior to our platforms, so one can see why most dealers and salespersons back a few years ago would assume that is what came on our trucks. (They are wrong, as I will explain in a minute.)

For the PK1 and PK2, you need a special PassLock key cut at a dealership or a locksmith. (GM also started a program whereby an owner can get a key cut merely by providing a VIN and proving ownership because the key pattern and the resistor value for every vehicle they made were all recorded on GM computers.)

On the PK1 and PK2, there are only 15 different resistors used. These keys are often (incorrectly) called "chip" keys because of the resistor. The word "chip" implies that it has a smart circuit of some kind, but it doesn't; it is simply a passive resistor.

With the introduction of the PK3 (PassKey III) GM went to a resistor stored in the switch itself, and the key became just a regular key that could be cut anywhere.

The PK3 is the system most widely used on our platforms. No GM360 has ever used a PK1 or PK2 system, meaning that most owners do not need to spend extra money for an expensive key; they can be cut anywhere that cuts keys. No GM360 platform ever came with the resistor-type "chip" key.

Now ... the complicating factor is that GM has now moved to a PassKey III+ (PK3+) system; the keys with the little "+" symbol next to the head. The PK3+ will be installed on certain high-end GM vehicles from 2008, many GM vehicles from 2009 and will be mandatory on all new vehicles sold across North America starting in 2011.

The PassKey III+ uses an immobilizer in the key itself (imbedded in the plastic head of the key) and these keys will be VERY expensive to replace.

Now this means that our platforms all use the non-resistor, non-immobilizer PK3 keys that can be cut anywhere ... BUT some of the very late production GM360 platforms went to the PK3+ system. An immobilizer became mandatory for new vehicles sold in Canada in 2008, so that certain 2008 and 2009 models of our truck that were originally sold in Canada come with the PK3+ system. (These can truly be called "chip" keys.)

I hope this clears it up for future readers. Yes, unless your truck is an 08 or 09 and comes from Canada, if the dealer is charging you extra or forcing you to get keys cut from them, they are ripping you off.

By the way, the PK1, PK2 and PK3 can be bypassed in less than 10 seconds by a knowledgeable thief with only a screwdriver and a rock. The PK3+ system cannot be bypassed, and the only way to steal the truck is to have the keys or haul it away by tow truck. At this point, there have been no documented cases of vehicles with properly installed aftermarket approved immobilizers or GM PK3+ systems ever being stolen without the key.
 
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