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Install or rebuild issue no movement

3K views 10 replies 5 participants last post by  j00163206 
#1 · (Edited)
My mother in law has a 2005 Trailblazer LS 4x4. Last year sometime the transmission went out. She was loosing fluid due to a leak in the system prior to the loss of all movement. This year I finally got around to pulling it and rebuilding. This is my 5th or so rebuild on a 4l60E so I know just enough to be dangerous and screw things up so...

The pump was shot but I found nothing other than normal wear on the other hard parts. I cleaned it all up put in new seals, pistons, steels + frictions, bushings, band. I opted to replace the pump because I didn't think the old one could be reused due to some light gouging on the body. I used a video for instruction, clearances, etc but purchased parts on ebay.

On the valve body i cleaned thoroughly w mineral spirits, checked that all the springs were working, replaced the gaskets, reused the plate... I reused all solenoids, tcc, presure regulator... and did not ream or replace the boost valve etc as it was a cost sensitive rebuild and I thought we had identified the fault as low fluid volume, high pump pressure to pump failure.

I put 1 qt of transmission fluid in the torque converter that I reused from the truck. We installed the transmission after lining it up. Everything appeared to go into place right, all the mounts cables, fluid lines etc all lined up leading me to believe it is in the correct position. I 8x times checked that the converter was seated into the pump fully before Installed the flexplate to torque converter bolts. Everything else was connnected and checked. 5 quarts went into the pan and then we started it and ran the engine for 10 min before checking the fluid and adding another 5 quarts. Since I had no movement I put a gal more fluid in until it was leaking out of the fill tube area... I siphoned about 3 qt back out.

While still on jackstands the vehicle wheels will turn, increase speed by throttle input, and appears to work in each gear. I can move the wheels with the rear drive shaft and they all turn freely.

Once on the ground it will not move.

I dont have a stuck calliper because I just redid the brakes at the same time and the wheels all move without issue... except on the ground... lol.

So far I have pulled the cooler line at the radiator and verified the pump is pushing fluid, although I have no idea how much pressure it needs. I then
pulled the transmission down again and attempted to re-seat the torque converter it wont move any father back. Flexplate to converter clearance I can place a 7/16" drill bit. I also checked the parking break to ensure it wasn't engaged and since the truck will roll in neutral I don't think this is an issue.

The pump was advertised as being a 300 mm. Is it possible I have the wrong pump which would prevent the torque converter from staying seated?

Is it possible that there is an electrical brake component grounding to the frame which prevents the truck from moving?

I will pull down the pan and check that the manual valve linkage didn't come off later today. Any recommendations, advice, ideas or assistance is greatly appreciated thank you.
 
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#2 ·
rrtravis,

Depending on the cause of the transmission failure, it is possible that the torque convertor is either malfunctioning, or the torque convertor to flex plate bolts are missing or were not torqued to spec. Also, you may have a bad pump. Line pressure varies between 53 - 195 psi depending on the amperage at the pressure control solenoid.

Also causing issues would be using a shallow pan filter in a deep pan transmission, however this is doubtful as you appear to have overfilled the case (should not cause any damage in a transmission).
 
#3 · (Edited)
One thing for sure that you should never have done is to run the trans for 10 minutes with only 5 quarts in it. That may not be the cause of your problem but never do that. The proper way is to put some fluid in the converter as you did, then 5 or 6 qts. in the trans and then start the engine and immediately fill it the rest of the way up.


You should check the trans oil pressure to see what it is. The pressure tap is on the left side of the case above the shifter linkage, and also, there is no electronic concern that will cause it not to move.

Make sure you used the correct valve body gaskets and the the one for the case is between the separator plate and the case, and the one for the valve body is between the separator plate the valve body. I doubt you have the wrong filter on it as overfilling the way you did would have made it pick up fluid.

Check the oil pressure!

If you drop the pan, make sure the manual valve is connected to the linkage. If the flow of oil coming out of the cooler line at idle is at least one quart in 20 seconds then "probably" the pump is working correctly, although that is no guarantee.

Were there any broken parts in the old pump?

See the two white rings on the pump?


Are they there, and undamaged? if they are not there, no reverse.

Are the four white rings on the input shaft?



If not, no forward.

Check the oil pressure.
Let me know.
 
#11 ·
One thing for sure that you should never have done is to run the trans for 10 minutes with only 5 quarts in it. That may not be the cause of your problem but never do that. The proper way is to put some fluid in the converter as you did, then 5 or 6 qts. in the trans and then start the engine and immediately fill it the rest of the way up.


You should check the trans oil pressure to see what it is. The pressure tap is on the left side of the case above the shifter linkage, and also, there is no electronic concern that will cause it not to move.

Make sure you used the correct valve body gaskets and the the one for the case is between the separator plate and the case, and the one for the valve body is between the separator plate the valve body. I doubt you have the wrong filter on it as overfilling the way you did would have made it pick up fluid.

Check the oil pressure!

If you drop the pan, make sure the manual valve is connected to the linkage. If the flow of oil coming out of the cooler line at idle is at least one quart in 20 seconds then "probably" the pump is working correctly, although that is no guarantee.

Were there any broken parts in the old pump?

See the two white rings on the pump?


Are they there, and undamaged? if they are not there, no reverse.

Are the four white rings on the input shaft?



If not, no forward.

Check the oil pressure.
Let me know.
He could have a valve body bolt in the wrong spot. Check those first. Just in the wrong place and it will lock the transmission
 
#5 · (Edited)
No matter what I do something will not let me post the image of the pump rings.



Anyway on the back half of the pump there are two white plastic rings that seal pressure to the reverse input drum. They look similar to the rings pictured on the input shaft above.

Edit never mind. I got it by a convoluted back door trick.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I connected the pressure gauge this morning and got the following

at .10 185 psi
.20 175
.30 165
.40 150
.50 135
.60 120
.70 100
.80 81
.90 65
1.0 60

The tool wouldn't let me change the current to .00 or 1.10.

I don't know if these ranges are acceptable or not?

The old pump had the rotor broken into several pieces.

I'm certain the rings were installed back on the shafts because I needed to buy a tool to resize them. As for the gasket I believe I have the VB side to the valve body and the CA side to the case.

I will take the pan down this afternoon and check the manual valve link, if it appears ok I will double check the gaskets. I'll check back before I pull it down to check the rings again.

Thanks again gentlemen!
 
#7 · (Edited)
I'm not concerned with the amperages. What I need to know are the oil pressures in drive at idle and in drive at wide open throttle. Also reverse at idle and reverse at wide open throttle, although the pressures appear normal. In other words, the pressures the trans itself is command to produce by the computer. Now, If I understand correctly, you used the old converter over and the rotor in the pump was broken. If that is what you did that was very risky. No doubt large chunks of metal could have entered the converter.
 
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